So I am starting up my running again and am using the BarryP plan as a guide. At least half of my runs so far (about 2-3 weeks into it) have been trail/offroad runs without a GPS watch. Now, I get fewer DOMS with such runs so am I essentially cheating myself or are they a valid substitute. For one thing, the more technical nature of trail running means slower running which is great when starting off as most runners tend to run too quickly but might this become more of an issue?
Running is running?
If anything, the variability of trail running is a nice break from the road.
Imo, it can be as hard or easy as you choose to make it.
As a trail runner and a triathlete, I do MOST of my running offroad, including training for all tris (including Iron Distance). I think it’s more a question of the elevation profile of the route you’re running. Are you training for a flat race? You might do well to get in some flatter terrain. I find that trail running increases my core strength and overall fitness better FWIW.
At times I’ll do every other or every third long run on the trail. On my trail of choice I am about 1 - 1.5 min/mi slower on the trail and would get in 3-4 miles less. In no way did I feel like I was getting in less of a workout, it was a little different, but it counted just the same. My heart rate would average about the same as my road runs, but there would be a little more variation. At the end of my long trails runs my muscles would be sore at the end of my long road runs my joints and tendons would be more sore.
I think doing a trail run is a great way to be more “involved” in the run, always looks for rocks and roots with varying terrain. It also transfers the beating the legs take to different places while working the engine just about the same. Plus it is just a nice change of pace which can make it easier to get out there and run on a consistent basis.
I’m surprised offroad running is not emphasized more to beginners because if it results in fewer DOMS then the volume can be that much greater.
yes, offroad running counts as much as road running.
I’m not sure about treadmill running though. I’ve never done it but
it seems it should count a lot less.
Trail running is great. It’s a great way to build running strength and endurance. An area trail running suffers (for triathletes) is that it’s not quite as specific as a road run. As triathletes we tend to race on (mostly) flattish roads. The cadence and specific muscle recruitment is a bit different when you’re trying to pace a fast tri vs. a hilly trail run. Having said that, the sheer joy and beauty of running off road keeps me there during a lot of runs.
I’ll weigh in as “disagree”. Trail running does not count the same as road running. While I understand trail running has many merits as others have mentioned, I don’t think that preparing for an Ironman marathon that would be primarily run on a road can be done on trail. Sprinkling in trail runs for variety is a good idea, but I think the muscles and joints need to be challenged similar to race conditions for the best preparation.
So I am starting up my running again and am using the BarryP plan as a guide. At least half of my runs so far (about 2-3 weeks into it) have been trail/offroad runs without a GPS watch. Now, I get fewer DOMS with such runs so am I essentially cheating myself or are they a valid substitute. For one thing, the more technical nature of trail running means slower running which is great when starting off as most runners tend to run too quickly but might this become more of an issue?
Some of the greatest distance runners of all time did substantial amounts of their training on trails.
If you get fewer DOMS running on trails you should question the validity of how the DOMS are calculated not stop running on trails.
Undulating uneven trails with variable surfaces will mean slower miles but the training effect and effort will be greater than the speed might suggest.
During one season I did all my running on trails and found that the pounding from even a 10k race on pavement left my legs quite sore the following days. I could only imagine trying to do a marathon off only trail running. Trail running is certainly a nice break, but make sure your training is specific to your goals (ie. trail running in off-season or easy runs or for an xterra event).
Another risk of trail running, depending the trail conditions, but you may twist knees and ankles alittle easier. On the flip side, it helps to strengthen your supporting muscles in your legs and those used for balance.
Good luck and have fun.
I like trail running and use it as a nice break during the off season.
I don’t like sprained ankles so I rarely run on uneven surfaces during the season.
yes, offroad running counts as much as road running.
I’m not sure about treadmill running though. I’ve never done it but
it seems it should count a lot less.
I’ve done enough treadmill training to find it’s legit for all distances. Just remember that due to calibration issues, etc., the TM pace may not line up perfectly with your outdoor flatland pace, so adjust as needed based on your TM. The biggest error people make is assuming they can run 7min/mile on the Tm, and thus should definitely run exactly that fast on race day, and find that even a small 5-10sec min/mile differential can cause a crash and burn when you’re redlining it.
Trail and road and TM are all close enough to be considered equal provided you are training equally hard on each. The best approach would however to best approximate the race day course - if it’s a dead flat course, do a lot of dead flat or 0% TM training for faster turnover. If it’s a hillfest like Wildflower, take advantage of the TM and crank it up to beat on those hills.
So I am starting up my running again and am using the BarryP plan as a guide. At least half of my runs so far (about 2-3 weeks into it) have been trail/offroad runs without a GPS watch. Now, I get fewer DOMS with such runs so am I essentially cheating myself or are they a valid substitute. For one thing, the more technical nature of trail running means slower running which is great when starting off as most runners tend to run too quickly but might this become more of an issue?
I found off road running to be much tougher than road. Almost the way mtn biking is harding than road. I might get in 7 miles of mtn biking in an hour, vs 20 on the road, but that hour of mtn biking leaves me hurting much more.
My problem with trail running is I seem to get hurt all the time. I twist my ankles constantly so I have stopped doing it. I know it’s probably better on the joints, but when I’m always twisting them, that seems worse
you might be talking about alberto salazar. i know he severely limits the time his athlete spends on pavement.
in this thread, we seem to be hitting on two different things. trail running vs not running on pavement.
i like to do alot of my running on a double track path with gravel screenings. you could also do a golf course early in the morning. this will give you the specificity with much less pounding on the legs (another plus for the treadmill).
there is also nothing wrong with running single track which seems to be more of what the op is asking. if it was me, i would treat it like i treat mountain biking. run based on time. as you approach a race become more specific with how you train so for running, best case is running on a dirt or gravel screened path.
So I am starting up my running again and am using the BarryP plan as a guide. At least half of my runs so far (about 2-3 weeks into it) have been trail/offroad runs without a GPS watch. Now, I get fewer DOMS with such runs so am I essentially cheating myself or are they a valid substitute. For one thing, the more technical nature of trail running means slower running which is great when starting off as most runners tend to run too quickly but might this become more of an issue?
I found off road running to be much tougher than road. Almost the way mtn biking is harding than road. I might get in 7 miles of mtn biking in an hour, vs 20 on the road, but that hour of mtn biking leaves me hurting much more.
My problem with trail running is I seem to get hurt all the time. I twist my ankles constantly so I have stopped doing it. I know it’s probably better on the joints, but when I’m always twisting them, that seems worse
i have the same issue. the twisting irritates my it band. im sure if i had a stronger core, was more flexible, and didnt over-stride it wouldnt feel so bad.
Trail running is like a vacation. It’s easy on the legs and the scenery is great. I have the benefit of lots of off leash trails so I get to run with my dog. It is a lot slower than road because of rough footing and steep hills up and down but that develops balance and strength. Trail runs can make you very mentally tough. I think that road running is essential for a road race but that trail running is great for supplementation.
Come on this post has to be a joke, if you don’t think running a flat asphalt road running with some hills is like running on a single track trail, with roots, logs, mud, branches, uneven soil, mud, try a 5k of both, some would say that an Xterra tri is harder than a half Ironman (don’t even chime in if you haven’t done both) my point is running trails is way more technical and makes your legs stronger, running on roads is easier, except for pot holes, cars and varmits, my 2 cents
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It seems that one difference, lies in what happens on the decents.
My heart rate on a trail run looks like this:
20 minutes- hr 155
20 minutes- hr 110
20 minutes - hr 155
20 minutes - hr 110
The road (with similar topography) would be:
20 minutes 150
20 minutes 135
20 minutes 150
20 minutes 135
Both approaches have merit.
But they are not the same.
On trails it is possible to “control” the ascents and hammer the decents. This is a good race strategy, but impractical in training (if you value the long term health of your ankles).
Both approaches have merit.
But they are not the same.
Of course! Trails are built in interval training!
I think the heart rate differences are a combination of what is possible/safe on the given terrain and your approach. I actually work to even the difference out and keep my heart rate high going down hill. Looking at my last long trail run there was a 10-15 bpm variability between up and down segments but the overall average between my net uphill half and the net downhill half was 3 bpm, so I definitely think you can manage that, within limits. That being said, I haven’t done many hilly road runs since I got back into heart rate training, so I don’t have a huge personal dataset to draw from.
I have been hammering the descents in training runs over the last three months because I am racing a trail half marathon with a four mile descent and want to have the strength to keep my pace down the hill. I also have very strong ankles left over from my time as a dancer and I’m super aware of terrain and work to stay on my toes, literally, down hill to avoid rolling an ankle. I “control” the ascents by virtue of being super slow and not in great shape so I couldn’t go much faster than I do if I tried!
Bonus for running trails with a dog - he picks the best lines down hill!
FyreHaar in my opinion you are reaching troll status, I think you never ran but grandmas trail and think you know all that, try running fast on a tech trail and get back to me, my 2 cents
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