I have a sram red black 2011 TT ten speed. The cassette is pretty warn, so I want to replace it. However I would like to change to 11 speed at some point, just don’t have the 800 euro right now to make the full transition. I’m doing IM Barcelona next month and would like to get a new cassette before that, however I wouldn’t like to pay for a 10 spd cassette, since I’m leaning towards 11 in the near future. So my question is can you use an 11 spd cassette with a 10 spd derailleur? I have a zipp 808 rear suitable for 11 speed, now use a spacer.
On a more esoteric note, I have a different question.
All the Shimano rear derailleurs have had the same geometry for a couple decades now… ie you can use an old 9spd 105, Ultegra, or DA derailleur with 10spd shifters and vice versa. Is that still true with 11spd? In other words, could I get 11spd shifters and keep the old derailleur? How about SRAM?
On a more esoteric note, I have a different question.
All the Shimano rear derailleurs have had the same geometry for a couple decades now… ie you can use an old 9spd 105, Ultegra, or DA derailleur with 10spd shifters and vice versa. Is that still true with 11spd? In other words, could I get 11spd shifters and keep the old derailleur? How about SRAM?
From what I have heard, the geometry of the 11 spd derailleurs has changed and 8/9/10 spd derailleurs will not work with 11 spd shifters.
However, I have not tried it yet myself…just what I have been told.
For SRAM road, 10sp and 11sp use the same actuation ratio (so yes to your question) but 10sp RDs may run out of travel range depending on other geometry and cage widths are designed to match the chain widths so performance suffers when they don’t match up.
I hope that jtek is getting on this… they told me awhile ago that they would soon do a shiftmate that would make Shimano derailleurs and C11 shifters compatible with 11spd cassettes. If Shimano changed their geometry, this means more perturbations.
I’m not sure if a totally clear answer has been put forward. The OP is using SRAM, which uses the same actuation (aka cable pull) ratio across 10 and 11 speed for both road and mountain with the exception of XX1 on mountain. This is entirely different from Shimano, who to my knowledge never has any compatibility across cable pull ratios for road or mountain, even when it’s the same number of cogs.
There are a lot of benefits to this compatibility approach, and I think it’s a quietly awesome feature of SRAM. I built up a tandem with 10 speed road shifters and a mountain bike RD. You can’t do that with Shimano without some kind of Jtek hack. You could theoretically put a mountain bike derailleur with TT shifter, if you wanted to, for a 1x10 or 1x11 setup. And, if you are changing to 11 speed, you really only need the chain, cassette, and shifters for 11 speed, and you can use 10 speed derailleurs. You do need 11 speed shifters, because the actual space between the cogs is different, but the cable pull itself is the same. But, assuming you have a compatible wheel, the upgrade isn’t as expensive as with Shimano.
Anyway, the definitive answer to the topic title is: Yes, you can use an 11 speed cassette with a 10 speed SRAM derailleur, but you need 11 speed shifters and chain.
This is entirely different from Shimano, who to my knowledge never has any compatibility across cable pull ratios for road or mountain, even when it’s the same number of cogs.
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That is incorrect. Shimano had cross-compatibility for a number of years across platforms.
I’m not sure if a totally clear answer has been put forward. The OP is using SRAM, which uses the same actuation (aka cable pull) ratio across 10 and 11 speed for both road and mountain with the exception of XX1 on mountain.** This is entirely different from Shimano, who to my knowledge never has any compatibility across cable pull ratios for road or mountain, even when it’s the same number of cogs. **
There are a lot of benefits to this compatibility approach, and I think it’s a quietly awesome feature of SRAM. I built up a tandem with 10 speed road shifters and a mountain bike RD. You can’t do that with Shimano without some kind of Jtek hack. You could theoretically put a mountain bike derailleur with TT shifter, if you wanted to, for a 1x10 or 1x11 setup. And, if you are changing to 11 speed, you really only need the chain, cassette, and shifters for 11 speed, and you can use 10 speed derailleurs. You do need 11 speed shifters, because the actual space between the cogs is different, but the cable pull itself is the same. But, assuming you have a compatible wheel, the upgrade isn’t as expensive as with Shimano.
Anyway, the definitive answer to the topic title is: Yes, you can use an 11 speed cassette with a 10 speed SRAM derailleur, but you need 11 speed shifters and chain.
Almost right. You can use a 9 speed Shimano mountain derailleur with 10 speed cassette and 10 speed road shifters (STI or Bar End) without any issues or JTEK. You can’t use a Shimano 10 speed mountain derailleur with 10 speed road shifters however.
The normal (old) Shimano road and mountain derailleurs were all the same… don’t know about the new mountain stuff though.
The cool thing about Shimano derailleurs is that you can use Campy shifters with them (with a jtek if necessary). At least that was true before 11spd. Sram is different though.
BTW, I really wouldn’t call the jtek shiftmate a hack. It’s a clever device that uses a pulley to change ratios, and gives you cross-compatibility for many derailleur and shifter combinations.
Dear Lennard,
I wanted to share my 10s / 11s compatibility adventure.
My bike was set up with the following: SRAM Red 2012 10s shifters/derailleurs, Praxis Works rings, 10s Dura Ace chain/cassette. The right shifter broke, and instead of getting another 10-speed shifter, I did the following: replaced right shifter with new SRAM Red 22 right shifter, installed new Dura Ace 11s chain/cassette (wheels were 11s ready), already had Praxis Works rings on there (10/11s compatible), and left everything else the same (SRAM Red 2012 10s front/rear derailleur and left shifter). It works like a charm after a month of abuse. Just had to adjust the rear limit screws a bit. — Brian Dear Brian,
Yes, SRAM did not change the cable pull ratio when going from 10-speed to 11-speed, so a 10-speed SRAM road rear derailleur will work quite well with an 11-speed SRAM road shifter. And as I’ve discussed here, the spacing between chainrings is the same with 11s as with 10s, so the Praxis rings will work the same with either system. I have exactly these same chainrings on a couple of my 11s bikes, and they work nicely.
Since you haven’t changed the chainrings, there is no reason to change your SRAM road 10s front derailleur and shifter, either. The difference in chain outer width between Shimano 10s and 11s chains is under 0.4mm, so from center, that’s under 0.2mm narrower, and I doubt you would notice any shifting difference in front between the 10s and 11s chains. And, finally, Shimano and SRAM 11s cogsets and chains are cross-compatible, so no problem with your choices there. It’s good your rear wheel was already 11-speed compatible. Your broken 10s shifter allowed you to end up with an 11s system with a moderate investment. ¯ Lennard
I’m not sure if a totally clear answer has been put forward. The OP is using SRAM, which uses the same actuation (aka cable pull) ratio across 10 and 11 speed for both road and mountain with the exception of XX1 on mountain.** This is entirely different from Shimano, who to my knowledge never has any compatibility across cable pull ratios for road or mountain, even when it’s the same number of cogs. **
There are a lot of benefits to this compatibility approach, and I think it’s a quietly awesome feature of SRAM. I built up a tandem with 10 speed road shifters and a mountain bike RD. You can’t do that with Shimano without some kind of Jtek hack. You could theoretically put a mountain bike derailleur with TT shifter, if you wanted to, for a 1x10 or 1x11 setup. And, if you are changing to 11 speed, you really only need the chain, cassette, and shifters for 11 speed, and you can use 10 speed derailleurs. You do need 11 speed shifters, because the actual space between the cogs is different, but the cable pull itself is the same. But, assuming you have a compatible wheel, the upgrade isn’t as expensive as with Shimano.
Anyway, the definitive answer to the topic title is: Yes, you can use an 11 speed cassette with a 10 speed SRAM derailleur, but you need 11 speed shifters and chain.
Almost right. You can use a 9 speed Shimano mountain derailleur with 10 speed cassette and 10 speed road shifters (STI or Bar End) without any issues or JTEK. You can’t use a Shimano 10 speed mountain derailleur with 10 speed road shifters however.
This is the setup I have on my bike. My LBS said the 10 speed would not work, so I have the 9 speed RD with my 10 speed shifters.
I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not trying to offend anyone or get into any brand-level preferences – I was just answering the OPs question. In case it’s helpful, I’ll clarify a few more compatibility points that you guys brought up (unrelated to OP).
@jmh: You’re talking about accidental compatibility. It just so happens that you can use a shimano mountain 9 speed derailleur with the shimano road 10 speed shifters. The cable pull ratios are actually not quite the same – there’s a UK group that has a compiled spreadsheet of measured cable pull and even cassettte pitch, and you can find this here:
There are a bunch of “okay” options and “pretty good” options, but this is all imperfect but close. If it isn’t a perfect match, jtek makes shiftmates for most campy/shimano setups. In the case of SRAM, they are engineered and manufactured to be compatible with the same cable pull across the board (excluding XX1). I think that’s different. If it makes you feel any better, you can use a Campy 10 speed shifter with any SRAM RD with no jtek, as well, and tandem users have done this for years.
@rruff: I don’t think jtek is hacky in a bad way, but by “hack” I mean modification. I use 3 of their DoubleControl cable splitters on my road/TT bike hybrid so I can shift from both the TT shifters and the road shifters, and brake from the TT position. It works well and it’s really cool. I like jtek. I’m just pointing out the difference in compatibility, and answering the OPs question. I don’t see why you’d want to mix campy with SRAM, but as I said above you can use 10 speed campy shifters with any SRAM RD. But, with all the compatibility intentionally engineered into SRAM, I don’t see why it’s necessary unless you really like campy ergonomics and need a mountain bike RD.
@seppo: Agreed.
Hope it’s helpful. In summary, you can play around with the tables in the link above, or just use SRAM across the board if you like the ergonomics. You only need the right shifters for the cassette and chain.
Yes, you can keep the crankset and match the FD to the chainrings (meaning, 10 speed FD for 10 speed chainring set). If you are using the sram exogram crank, the 11 speed chainrings are compatible with the 10 speed exogram crank and vice versa. See a trend here? Compatibility is nice.
