Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the most important thing is to finish fresh in a respectable time and then tackle the bike/run odyssey. Huge swimming mileage in training seems like it might jeopardise good bike and run work. I would have thought that less swimming, but more focus on maintaining great form would be better.
Any thoughts?
I swim an average of two times a week. Try and get in at least 4000 once a week in a workout.
Hasn’t hurt my times, and I always leave the water just fine and dandy.
But then again, I’m a swim coach. I probably have a few years experience than most, adn this means I don’t need to spend as much time in the water.
I think most age group triathletes don’t swim ENOUGH. The more you swim, hopefully you’ll get better and stronger, and the fresher you will be when you get out of the water. It’s all about balance and getting the workouts in. You need to do all three disciplines a lot. If you neglect one, you’ll pay for it. IMO, if you are swimming less than 12,000 yds per week for IM, it is not enough…
Andy
Generally speaking, the older you get, the less you want to run. The other two sports aren’t as hard on the body.
It’s the other way around, most AG athletes don’t swim enough.
You are not alone with this notion. I spoke recently to a well known guy with LOTS of high-end IM experience over the last 20 years. He is a personal trainer and coach in his late 40s, I would guess, and is planning on doing a sub-10 IM this year on less than 10 hours per week of training. His training plan consists of (1) no swimming (seriously, no swimming at all - he says “I already know how to swim”), (2) one long bike ride per week, (3) 1 REALLY long run per week plus some speed work, I think, and (4) lots and lots of time in the weight room.
Or they spend a decent amount of time in the pool, but waste most of it by reinforcing their poor technique!
No way of knowing for sure, but I have to believe that guy would race faster if he substituted the weights for swimming. There is just no logical reason why non-sport specific training would be more effective than sport specific. Sure if you have the time on top of s/b/r then weights can be a benefit.
I know how to swim too, but my speed through the water and my endurance in the water are drastically different depending on how much I swim.
My feeling is that B/R is the priority, but once you get a reasonable number of hours in those, then swimming has its place. To sacrifice a long ride or run for swimming would probably not be as effective, but running 6 days a week instead of 7 and adding a swim would probably be quite effective.
I also think people tend to underestimate the value of being able to swim 2.4 miles and not get wiped out in the process. Not as concerned about the time, but I be willing to bet most 75-90 minute swimmers are more tired after the swim than the 55-65 minute swimmers.
Maybe. Let’s see what he does. He said if it works (and he is confident it will), he will probably write a book or some articles about his theories. BTW, I think I was wrong about his bike workout. I think he said he would usually do a 1 hour ride at TT pace, plus warm up and cool down. Leaves more time for running and weights, I guess. I think his long run is something like 4 hours or more. Definitely not your typical training plan.
Actually most people spend too much time practicing swimming poorly. They have not the technical knowledge to correct themselves to be really efficient swimmers. This means they have to swim more to not waste themselves on the first leg. A swimmer can get away with 2x or 3x per week. the avg person will never move to the FOP off of 3x week
I’m in the water 4-5x/week (when healthy) and I don’t swim enough. If I wanted to be a really good swimmer, I’d likely need to double my yardage if not triple or quadruple it.
I hate it when I finish “fresh”.
That is going to be a must-read book…
swimming is not a sport where u can improve on twice a week training, unless you’ve never swum before in yr life.
Khai, you already know the best way to improve your swimming. I’ll ask around about the names you sent me and get back to you.
Or, they spend a decent amount of time in the pool, but waste most of it working on drills they have no business attempting until they have accommodated more fundamental aspects of swimming; or they do drills at such low intensities and/or low volume of repetition that the neuromuscular imprinting never takes hold “deep” enough and is lost by the next week’s session, or over the “off” season; or they don’t incorporate enough resistance work or simple repetition of basic mechanics to ever truly provoke a strength and/or aerobic training response, but they can go forever at a snail’s pace looking good.
I guees it depends on how fast ou want to be. I do short course and in a sprint last year i lost 50 seconds in a half mile swim and that cost me the race. I also had the 4th fastest run of the day and a good bike. i lost by 18 seconds. If you are not worried about being fast then maybe spend more time ont he bike and run since you are doing that for longer. if you want to be fast i dont knwo how you can do 2 short swims a week and be good.
I dont think that there is a such thing as “to much time in the pool”
You cant WIN an IM in the Swim, you can sure loose one there though. Think about it - non-impact, no crashes, great workout…and if you are used to swimming 10 miles a week, you will come out of a 2.4 feeling super strong, relaxed and ready to hit the bike…as opposed to thanking god it is over, crawling up the beach anarobic and trying to get your tired body to the bike so you can relax.
Actually most people spend too much time practicing swimming poorly. They have not the technical knowledge to correct themselves to be really efficient swimmers. This means they have to swim more to not waste themselves on the first leg. A swimmer can get away with 2x or 3x per week. the avg person will never move to the FOP off of 3x week
There are many correct answers given so far!!!
Age group triathletes do not swim enough!!
You need to work on technique and not force bad technique into muscle memory. This would mean more time in the pool to work on technique and still get in a good workout.
It is all about the heart and lungs – building cadio base in the pool is great and does not beat your body up as much as running. Since I have turned 40 - I just can’t get anywhere near the milage I used to do at 30.
Swimming will help your swim split a little and your transition and bike split a lot. Like i said - Heart and lungs. If the swim is a warm-up (and I swim it pretty fast) - I still have a great transition and bike. If I do not train the swim enough - I come into transition tired and out of breath - have trouble getting dressed and then need the first few miles of the bike to recover from the swim that I could barely finish. Swim training will help your bike split!!
Breath control - best place to learn to control your breathing is in to pool – this will help your run split.
Swim more!!
There is no easy answer to this question. It’s not a black and white situation. Some thoughts:
History of swimming of the athlete. Competitive swim back-ground or no swim background?
Durability of the athlete as it pertains to running, in particular. Do they get run injuries easily?
Age of the athlete
Race goals of the athlete - just finish. High AG placing . .etc
What time of the year are we talking about ie off season swim more vs. in season swim less etc . . Doing a 4 month stint of huge swim volume in the off season when you can’t ride as much may be a good thing!
Bottom line is that the swim is really just a warm-up to the bike/run combo in an IM which is where the action really is. You need to be able to swim 2.5 miles non stop and it not kill you! If it’s killing you, you need to swim more.
Fleck
You are not alone with this notion. I spoke recently to a well known guy with LOTS of high-end IM experience over the last 20 years. He is a personal trainer and coach in his late 40s, I would guess, and is planning on doing a sub-10 IM this year on less than 10 hours per week of training. His training plan consists of (1) no swimming (seriously, no swimming at all - he says “I already know how to swim”), (2) one long bike ride per week, (3) 1 REALLY long run per week plus some speed work, I think, and (4) lots and lots of time in the weight room.