This may have been brought up before, but…
I saw a photo of one of the Disco TTX TDF bikes that had a Zipp disc. It was a close up and the Zipp logo and dimples were easily viewed. If true, I think Zipp should let the world know about this, if they actually knew themselves that DC was using their wheels.
Anyway, I find this pretty amusing, considering all the press that comes out about the Bontrager shop (Chop shop?)
Jack
"If true, I think Zipp should let the world know about this, if they actually knew themselves that DC was using their wheels. "
…Zipp knows…and is getting paid handsomely I’m sure…there’s nothing sneaky going on…they just supply OEM equipment to Trek and several other shops…
It’s a great product…whether it has Zipp, Reynolds or Bontrager on it…congrats to Trek for being resourceful enough to get the best products for their guys…
I agree with you, but I think Ziipp could gain a lot more if it were known by all that Armstrong rode their wheels to victory.
Jack
The Reynolds guy told me at one of the shows that they supply the tubes for the Trek OCLV frames, the carbon forks, and the rims labeled as Bontrager.
Alot of companies are just assemblers and leave the actual manufacture of their parts up to the companies that are good at manufacturing.
I mean, why be good all these four things; design, manufacture, assembly, and marketing when you can farm out the things you can’t be the best at and focus on the other three?
Zipp was probably paid to NOT let the world know that their disc was being used.
…i don’t think it’s a big deal…Zipp might not care about Armstrong…the people buying Zipps are already going to be cycling junkies…so what’s the difference?
i’m sure everyone is making out very well in this deal…
I would wager that it has more to do with the team, rather than Trek.
Why can’t it be both? Disco was riding Bontrager disks manufactured by Zipp. The whell I saw can’t be bought as a zipp (not even sure if it can be bought as a bonty), The only difference may be graphics, but its important to a lot of people.
Styrrell
I totally agree. Few people who don’t know who Zipp is, are going to go out and buy Zipp wheels. Hell, most people laugh when I tell them how much the wheels cost.
How old is this info?
Reynolds may supply a specific kind of tube (generally cut-to-length constant cross-section stock) here and there, but the vast majority of Trek’s OCLV frame tubes and all the shaped tubes are manufactured in-house.
Same holds for the forks, at least the higher-end stuff.
Bontrager carbon rims are made primarily in-house. Most notable exception that I know of being the new Aeolus deep-section wheelset which has a Hed fairing bonded to a Bontrager rim.
I think is a little disengenuous for Trek to sell products that are supposed to be the same as the stuff Disco uses. The lack of ethics in this case probably effects a great number of Trek buyers who think that Bontrager makes TDF quality stuff so they end up with on the bike. I checked out the Bontrager sight and they sell a disc for a pretty steep price. Check this out, straight from the site: RACE X LITE TT WHEEL
Tunnel tested to be the best!
Used by Lance and the Postal team
Ships with Shimano cassette body (Campagnolo conversion kit is available separately)
Race X Lite Carbon Aero front wheel makes a great compliment to this aerodynamic wheel!
For only $1399, wow.
Zipp buyers on the other hand, like you said, are already on the hook for the coolness and quality so it won’t have much affect on their mindsets nor wallets.
Anyway, I do find it quite amusing on one hand, and a little bit irritating on the other.
is it unethical for someone buying an Opel in Europe and not be told it’s actually a ford?
what about that carbon bike you’re riding? or any bike frame for that matter…most of them are made by Giant in the same factory…
i love capitalism…OEM suppliers and rebranding are just part of the supply chain game…
The Bontrager TT Aero Wheel is a Zipp Disc. Bontrager buys the disc from Zipp and puts their stickers on it. I think only Lance used the dimpled disc at the Tour, but maybe also George (?) because I think he was also on a TTx.
Everything else they used this year at the Tour you can either buy now or buy soon (TTx Time Trial bike and Aeolis wheels are not yet avaiable I don’t think)
As for Reynolds tubing, that is nothing new, most companies do not manufacture their tubing traditionally in the cycling industry. Why would they, most companies specialize in frame design and purchase tubing from Reynolds, True Temper and Easton among others, although i think Easton has cut down on selling aluminum tubing to bike companies… either that or less are making is obvious.
There is nothing new about one manufacturer producing product for many different companies. There are not that many quality component manufacturers in Taiwan and China so it’s pretty obvious that many companies including Zipp, Bontrager, etc… buy from the same ones.
The disk Bontrager sells IS the same disk Lance uses at the TDF. It’s a Zipp rebadged as Bontrager.
no offense but the deeper you dig the more scary stuff like this you’re going to find. Zipp sells it’s non-dimpled rims and disks to a number of companies who then relable them and lace them up with their own hubs. American Classic carbon wheels and the Bontragers are prime examples but there are a lot more. Like most companies Zipp keeps it’s top of the line products under it’s own name and that’s currently the dimpled technology wheelsets. You can only sell so much of your own brand and once you come out with something new it’s hard to move the older technology. Selling to other companies allows Zipp to keep utilizing the older molds and make a profit out of their competition. For companies like Trek/Bontrager who don’t really want to specialize in sexy carbon wheels even though thier customers want them to this is an easy out. While they don’t make a huge margin on the wheels at least they and their customers know the quality is there and the wheels are great advertising for other Bontrager brand stuff.
If you really start looking you’ll find out lots of other deep dark secrets and you’ll start finding those uber-expensive name brand carbon cranks relabled at half the price and other fun stuff like that. Most companies don’t have the capabilities to actually manufacture their own products especially higher end carbon fiber stuff. Plus most of this is about image anyways;) Good example, my Cervelo carbon seatpost I was riding last year was available under 4 different prominant name brands as well as a few more house brands at prices that varied from anywhere from $40-$120 depending on which decals you liked better.
I’m guessing you weren’t around back when Lance was riding a Trek painted Litespeed Blade in TDF time trials…
that would be totally unethical… especially since Opel is owned by GM
“For companies like Trek/Bontrager who don’t really want to specialize in sexy carbon wheels even though thier customers want them to this is an easy out. While they don’t make a huge margin on the wheels at least they and their customers know the quality is there and the wheels are great advertising for other Bontrager brand stuff.”
Actually no offense but everything else Trek makes for Bontrager wheels is designed in Wisconsin. The new Aeolis is a joint effort with Hed & Trek, but isn’t anything like what Hed is making himself. It is a Bontrager XXX lite carbon tubular with a Hed fairing attached. It’s a cool wheel (see the photo of Tim deBoom on Tom’s Pro position thread). The XXX-lite 55 gsm wheels are crazy light and are exactly what Lance raced at the Tour this year.
well, you know what i meant:)
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The Bontrager TT Aero Wheel is a Zipp Disc. Bontrager buys the disc from Zipp and puts their stickers on it. I think only Lance used the dimpled disc at the Tour, but maybe also George (?) because I think he was also on a TTx.
Lance’s custom painted disc had the dimples, and it even looked like it had the Zipp name that goes with the dimples. The Bontrager labeled disks do not seem to have the dimples. That great big sticker would cover most of them up anyways.
So how do you think that would go over at Trek. Trek buys Zipp discs w/o the logo and rebrands them as Bontragers. Do you think they’d still be a Zipp customer if Zipp broadcast that LA and Disco were using their wheels? Ullrich used Zipps too as did many other non-sponsored Zipp riders. Zipp knows all about it. Many of these athletes call Zipp with their credit cards and order the wheels themselves. Discretion is used, it all comes with being professional about the situation.
Zipps products can be found rebadged all over US and Italian companies product offering, they keep those customers because they don’t divulge who they outsource to. This is commonplace in the industry.
-SD