Disc vs Hed3 on 20k time-trial?

Triathlon Forum
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Hi gang!

I have a Softride Rocketwing w/ 2 Hed3 wheels.
I plan on competing in the Fiesta Island time-trial series which are on a 20K flat loop.

I’m just getting rolling after being out-of-commission for almost 10 years due to illness. I did my first baseline 10-mile time-trial a couple of weeks ago in stiff winds (12-15mph) and averaged 22mph. I’m improving quickly and feel like I will be able to increase that speed quite a bit - especially without the wind!

I’m 50 yrs old, 5’ 10", 210 lbs but expect to be down to 170-180 in the next few months. I was 330 a year ago so I’ve got the weight-loss routine in high gear!

Right now my bike setup is very non-aggressive and I can go a lot lower so that is the first step. But I’m seriously considering a disc. I don’t know how competitive I’ll end up being but I’m going to give it everything I have! Perhaps, I won’t be fast enough to truly warrant a disc, but frankly it’s worth it to me to just enjoy the sensation of putting the pedal-to-the-metal and going as fast as I possibly can - regardless of whether I ever place.

So if I put a disc on the rear, how much difference do you estimate it would make? I have Michelin Ironman clinchers right now but plan on going tubular on the disc unless you guys talk me out of it!

OK! I guess I’m rambling a bit! But for the last several years I’ve been holding on to my dream of someday simply being well-enough to be ABLE to compete in time-trials. That day is finally here and I’m so excited I feel like a kid on Christmas morning!

Anyway, I want to do the best I can so I appreciate your feedback and suggestions…

Thanks!

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So if I put a disc on the rear, how much difference do you estimate it would make? I have Michelin Ironman clinchers right now but plan on going tubular on the disc unless you guys talk me out of it!

In most conditions, a disc will be a minute or so faster in a 40k than a training wheel. It will be very, very close to something like an 808 or tri spoke.

You get more time savings out of a front wheel, so if you buy just one, get a front wheel first. My first purchase would be good all-around front race wheel. 404, 808 or tri-spoke, depending on your opinion of those various wheels. They’re all very close (I have an 808).

As for tires – you already own what are the fastest clinchers around (re-branded Michelin Pro Race). There are some others the equal of your tires (Conti 3000, Vittoria Opens), but none demonstrably faster. Tubulars will be as fast as your tires, but only if you buy very high quality ones, like the best Veloflex or Vittoria. Those tires can be a teensy bit faster than the clinchers if you keep the pressure down to 115-120 (any higher and they start slowing down). But – just a teensy bit faster.

What to get, tire-wise? Up to you, but think about this: How adept are you at mounting, changing and maintaining tubulars? If you do triathlon on these wheels, you need spares. Add up the cost of 3-4 Veloflex tubulars (2 for the bike and 1-2 as spares) and compare that to the cost of two Michelins and two inner tubes. Wow! And then – make sure you never, ever get a flat in the rain with those tubulars, 'cause you’ll be sitting on the side of the road waiting for the sag wagon.

Anyway, as you might have guessed, I race on clinchers. I had a tubie race wheelset, and I sold them.

EDIT: I just noticed you said you owned H3’s. If I were you, I’d buy nothing and race what you have right now. A disc is very, very close to that H3. I wouldn’t spend the money, that’s for sure (and I’m a stickler for aero stuff!). If you’re jonesin’ to spend some money on speed, get a Rocket helmet and a TT skinsuit.

Even better, buy a powertap wheel to improve your training and give you a tool to evaluate your bike position. Bike position tweaks are far more beneficial than wheels.

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Ashburn – Thanks for the great feedback!

Well maybe I’ll spring for the TT helmet and skinsuit first - although I planned on getting those anyway. I would love to get a Powertap wheel. I have a Polar S725 and I love being able to document and analyze my workouts. I think it helps a lot.

For example, I compared my aerobic intervals sessions of last month with my session on Tuesday. In the work sessions I went from a peak speed of 25-27mph to 27-29mph and at lower heart rates! I love that kind of stuff! It really is a confidence booster to have that kind of tool measure your progress - and it certainly adds a whole lot more fun to your training!

BTW – Since I’m going to use the disc only for time-trials I’m not too concerned about some of the downsides of tubulars you mentioned. However, unless they are notably faster I’ll stay with my clinchers.

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One other thing – a narrower tire on the front can make a difference with an H3. I’d get a size 20 Michelin for the front race wheel. For race day, I’m getting a Michelin Pro Lite in the smaller size. I’ll race that unless I know the course will be on rather rough roads.

Good luck! It’s great to hear from people doing well and getting better and getting excited!

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Thanks! I’ll start shopping for the narrower front tire…

Fiesta Island is quite smooth so there shouldn’t be a problem.

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Jshelton,
The number one thing i would recommend is go get professionally fitted into an aerodynamic position. Alot of people just think they will lower their handle bars and such but many times you lose power and comfort. Especially being 50 years YOUNG (hope i am that fit when i get that age), flexibility and strength are going to be limiting factors. I used to ride a Powerwing 700 a couple of years ago. Great bike. Had a pretty good fit for a while, the I planned on buying a new frame (the soloist I am on now). The shop (Demerly’s Bikesport) actually changed my position on my softride in order to get used to it while my soloist was being ordered. I could not believe how much more comfortable, fast, and powerful a simple change could be. Now that position transfered to my soloist is really comfortable, aero, and powerful. Basically, I would say bike fit is more important than tires, wheels, or components.

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Fiesta Island is quite smooth so there shouldn’t be a problem.

HEY! That’s where I train. I do my threshold sets out there on Mondays (either noon-ish or around 4 pm). I sometimes get there on Saturday mornings too. I’ll look for a guy on a Softride going fast. :wink:

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Thanks for the feedback! I was thinking of going to Nytro. Any suggestions for the San Diego area of where to get the best bike fit? BTW – I also thought of getting in touch with Arnie Baker and paying him to do a fit.

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Slowtwitch has a bunch of reviews of FIST (Slowman’s fit school) authorized fitters all over the country. Also, from your other post, If you want a great book about training pick up Chris Carmichael’s the Ultimate Ride. When you target the aerobic system like he does, your improvement is amazing! Good luck with your comeback to racing!

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Thanks! I’ll check it out! And thanks for the tip on the book. I’ll get it right away!

And thanks for the encouragement… it means a lot.

For years my Rocketwing sat in my living room - with flat tires, collecting dust. Friends tried to get me to sell it but I told them year-after year (while I weighed over 300 lbs!) that someday I would be well-enough and light-enough to race that bike in time-trials. Of course they thought I had completely lost touch with reality…

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Wheels, schmeels. I think it admirable that you’re back in the saddle again and doing well. Keep it up and stay healthy!

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Thanks Lou!

Looks like I can stay with my Hed3s and do just fine. If I find later on that I’m able to be competitive enough where a few seconds makes a big difference, then I’ll definitely get disc.

But since I’m just getting going in my training, I’m not sure it would be a factor. However, I wouldn’t mind getting one just to know how it feels to ride one!

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Have no idea how this translated into speed differential but Hed publishes the actual aero drag stats on it’s wheels. You can see that the disc has less drag, but both the trispoke and the Deep have relatively good numbers.

http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/

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Thanks! Yeah I saw that on their website.

My guess is that a disc might get me 10-20 seconds on a 20k time-trial. But will that make much difference if I’m not even competitive? For example, if I bought one and found that I placed 19th instead of 20th, would it really be worth it? Nope!

However, if I find that with the Hed3s I’m placing 5th or better then I would definitely think a disc would be a great benefit. I suppose the best idea is to see how I do in my first couple of time-trials and then go from there…