I asked this is another thread, but i thought it might get some of the ST braintrust to ferret out the answer, or at the very least, provide some lively discussion here.So I know that Miranda beat her split, but it was 3 minutes later. I know in swimming if a person sets a record in a heat, and 1 minute later someone breaks it, they still get the record for that minute. At the top of pro sports, that could mean a lot of $$ in bonus money, and just bragging rights. So did Chrissie get the run course record for the 3 minutes that she held it?? Does it go into the Ironman records as such??
My opinion is that she should get it for even the briefest period of time. I’m not aware of any rule that prohibits her from claiming it, anyone know something different??
The word on the street is that, until Mirinda crossed the line, the run course record was Chrissie’s. That’s my understanding of what happened. But, unlike swimming, they were in the same “heat,” so that’s a pretty notable difference. So I could see it going either way.
Don’t know about WTC, but she wouldn’t get it in the field part of track & field. The record comes at the end of the event. For instance if you longjump a record then I longjump further you never had it (or at least don’t get the WR bonus. I’m pretty sure they don’t give out bonuses for running heats either but I’m not positive.
A few weeks ago the pacer went through 30k (it was officially timed ) one step ahead of the guy who went on to set the marathon WR. He dropped out after so the guy that broke the marathon WR also got the 30 k record. Had the pacer walked the last 5k or so he would’ve been the 30k WR holder.
the IMLive coverage said she had it. At one time their feed said something that implied they both would get recognition for it. Something about 3 records being broken (and they weren’t talking about Dibens on the bike).
Ya, the heat thing makes it a whole different story, I just used it to show that in the same event, and a very short time period, that the record could be held and broken. Different heats, but the same event??? It is not an easy issue unless spelled out either by Ironman, or in the actual contract of the pro athlete with their sponsors. I’m betting that neither has been addressed, but someone in both camps is going to have to decide one way or the other. Ironman has to get their record books straight, and Chrissie’s sponsors will have to decide what to do with the bills she submits for her bonus money.
I’m glad you posted this as a different post—I saw you mention it in the other one and it really caught my attention—coming from a swimming background I was thinking it was her record for 3 mins or so—your post made me think about the bonus money that might carry with it. It’s a very interesting argument—the ‘same heat’ view could save the bonus money!
I know yesterday during the race coverage there was a lot of discussion (here on ST) about the women’s bike course record–as in does Dibens hold it if she can’t finish or does it go to Thuerig?
I know yesterday during the race coverage there was a lot of discussion (here on ST) about the women’s bike course record–as in does Dibens hold it if she can’t finish or does it go to Thuerig?\\
That is an easy one as it has been addressed and there is a written rule. If you do not finish the race, you do not get any of your splits recorded. That is why I have trouble when I talk about Wolfgangs great swim behind the course record holder Lars Jorgensen. He did not finish that year, so it is not recorded as the 2nd fastest swim time ever there. Julie had to walk to get her record, wonder if anyone told here that she did in fact have it?? She might have assumed that Karen would have gotten it, and that was that. Of course we are back to where I started here, what if Karin went faster “after” Julie did, does Julie get the record for the time inbetween??that is probably a no, as the times were not official yet, as they had not finsihed the race, but with the run finish, it is official…
Definitely an interesting discussion. I think a 100% Wellington could make it all academic next year with a sub 2:50 run. Regardless, those girls were flying!
Of course we are back to where I started here, what if Karin went faster “after” Julie did, does Julie get the record for the time inbetween??that is probably a no, as the times were not official yet, as they had not finsihed the race, but with the run finish, it is official…
Right and that’s why I brought it up here—there was only 4 sec between their bike splits I think and if it had been reversed it would have been Dibens’ course record for 10mins or whenever Karin came into T2—unofficially.
I think the run course record WAS Chrissie’s for the 3mins or so–and it should be in the record book that way…now the bonus money I’m sure someone will look for a way out of it and someone will argue to “do the right thing” and at least give some bonus money.
On the bike, you need to finish the race for the record to STAND, but as long as you are racing, do you still have it? I dunno. Interesting topic, for sure…
My guess is that the “record” is worded to somehow make it official after the race is over. In running a WR isn’t a WR until everything is certified. For instance if you set a WR time at Chicago paperwork must be filed to have it certified.
For a tri Chrissie run time started before Mirinda’s, so Chrissie set a fast time before Mirinda did, but Chrissie would never have the CR because all of the results weren’t in.
Look at the early days. I bet quite a few bike records and run records were set early on that were never recorded because before chip timing no would ould have even though of looking to see if someone with a time slower than the fastest time overall finished that leg before.
I’d be surprised if the Chrissie/Mirinda paradox never occurred in Kona before this year.
My guess is that the “record” is worded to somehow make it official after the race is over. In running a WR isn’t a WR until everything is certified. For instance if you set a WR time at Chicago paperwork must be filed to have it certified.
Let me show my ignorance on tri/WTC record keeping—is it the same process as a marathon? Is there that type of certification or is it more like swimming where well you were in the pool and the distance was XXX and we are using electronic timing so you are finished and the results are official and you now have a record? I guess this could answer Rappstar’s spin off question of if/while you are still racing does your “record” stand?? Guess not if not certified or not considered an official time?!
And you seem right—this type of situation must have come up at some point in the past but it seems like there is a lot of debate about timing in the past too (does the men’s run record include T2…).
I’d be surprised if the Chrissie/Mirinda paradox never occurred in Kona before this year.
Styrrell //
Well since you have to finish the race for your split to be official, I suppose we are only talking about the run record. ANd since it is a very, very old record in the mens race, and as far as I can remember, it has not been broken back to back like this in the womens, i believe this is the 1st case…And someone said that in a marathon it is after the race, but this cannot happen in a marathon or any single one heat event. Because in those, the fastest person will cross the line 1st, case closed. But as my example in swimming, you have the same event but different heats. Triathlon is kind of like that in we have 3 events, kind of like heats so to speak. I can see where the argument falls apart on the swim and bike splits, as they could have not been verfyied until an actual finish of the race. But the run is last, and as such is open to this interpetation. Chrissie got the run course record, because at the time we are not even sure if Miranda is going to finish…
And before any of you say of course she was, go back and look at PNF the year she collapsed just before Alli drive in 1st place, with a ton of time to just walk it in…Anything can happen in that race, and anywhere to anyone…
I’m sure their isn’t the same detail as in running. WTC runs Kona and its their record. Their is a protest period in most tris before the results are official, but as soon as they are official she has the record.
Its sort of meaningless other than for bonuses and bragging rights. The course has changed and they used to include transition in some legs.
After reflecting on what I just said, I suppose it could also happen on the bike. You could have someone break the record on the bike, later in the race someone break that time, and as long as the 1st person finishes the race before the other one, they would also have that record. Now that may have happened before, I would have to do some digging. Can’t happen on the swim, at least for pros only. But let us say that Potts breaks the course record and gets 10th overall. But an AG’er beats that time in the next wave and gets 900th overall. Since course records are not pro/AG seperated, I guess that is where it could happen in the swim.
For the men the record is 1989 on the run, that gives 10 years or so that would have to be checked. My guess is a least one year it happened, especially as the first guy to go sub 3:00 was hardly credited with it because he was so far back (it was his first ride that distance and he didn’t ride much at all).
