Descending on hoods and difficulty of braking?

Triathlon Forum
1

Just curious if when descending on the hoods of a road bike, if braking does not feel very stable because of the odd hand position and lack of pressure on the brakes because of it?

Just converted my cervelo dual handlebars to drop bars (inspired by a thread by Ashburn and his multi-purpose bike) and when I descend on the hoods, it just doesn’t feel like I can get enough pressure. I mean I can stop, but I almost have to try too hard to do so.

Not sure if it’s because it’s a tri bike and that’s why, or if “true” road bikes feel the same way. I’ve never ridden a road bike before so I have nothing to compare.

2

Odd…very odd. What levers, calipers and pads?

3

The levers are Cane creek SCR-5 which were one of the cheapest at nashbar. I didn’t change anything else. In the below pic, is the area I circled (where the arrow is pointing to) suppose to be parallel to the ground or tilted up or down???
http://i10.tinypic.com/42vhfmx.jpg

4

to add to Record’s questions - what type of bar and how are they set up in relation to your hands when in the drops?

5

Huge, I think this needs to be kept for posterity:

http://i10.tinypic.com/42vhfmx.jpg

Seriously, the alignment is entirely personal preference. It shouldn’t make a big difference on braking perfromance.

I’d check your cables to make sure they’re moving freely.

6

The handlebars are the nashbar 7075 lite road handlebars. I pretty much went with the cheapest brake levers and handlebars. I didn’t do any measurement or anything. Just took off the tri bar and put the other bar on. I think maybe something is not positioned right, like maybe the tilt of the brake levers or handlebars???

7

Ok, I think i’ll take everything apart tomorrow and check the cables maybe getting stuck somewhere.

8

If I understood you correctly, it might just be leverage. If you’re pulling in on the brake handle further up you’ll have less pressure applied to the brake. But I may have totally misunderstood you. It is the eve of the last workday before the holidays…

9

Well, I’m a little confused myself. but I think you might be on to something.

So, because I’m in the hoods, and I’m only pulling on the top part of the brake levers, I will have less pressure than if it’s lower? If the answer is yes, then, is that normal or most people can reach the whole brake lever while in the hoods?

10

Yeah, for max braking power I’m not on the hoods, I’m in the drops so leverage makes sense. Would still check those cables though.

11

OK, got it. Thanks for the info. And help/advice from everyone. Will check the cables tomorrow.

12

OK, got it. Thanks for the info. And help/advice from everyone. Will check the cables tomorrow.

When riding on the hoods, you will not have maximum leverage over the levers. You’ll need to sort of reach down farther toward the tip of the lever. With some time riding, you’ll get used to it. The “standard” setup for levers is to have the tips of the levers about 1/2" above a line extending forward from the flat part of the bottom of the drops, and to have that flat part roughly parallel to the headset. ie, the bars should be rotated slightly upwards/forwards, and the brakes should not be mounted too low on the curve.

Still check the cables and make sure they’re moving smoothly. But it’s probably just a matter of getting used to a new setup.

13

Just so I’m clear, the bottom of the drops are suppose to be slightly tilted upwards/forward and not parallel to the ground (like I have it now)? Wouldn’t that make your wrist twisted funny when in the drops or that’s how it’s suppose to be?

14

Just so I’m clear, the bottom of the drops are suppose to be slightly tilted upwards/forward and not parallel to the ground (like I have it now)? Wouldn’t that make your wrist twisted funny when in the drops or that’s how it’s suppose to be?
Depends - mine are parallel on my road bikes. I bet if you have the cheapest you could find you need some new pads.

15

Just so I’m clear, the bottom of the drops are suppose to be slightly tilted upwards/forward and not parallel to the ground (like I have it now)? Wouldn’t that make your wrist twisted funny when in the drops or that’s how it’s suppose to be?
Yes, the slightly tilted setup will make it more comfortable for you. You don’t really ride with hands deep into the hooks, knuckles forward (at least, not for long). It’s more comfortable to have wrists straight in line with forearms – hands roughly about where the curve flattens out. Sort of like having your knuckles facing down toward the front axle. I ride with my hands entirely on the flat part of the bottom. You most definitely do not want your wrists cocked out of line with your forearms – that will get very tiring and sore. Same with riding on the hoods – I like the hoods just high enough (and the bars just tilted enough) so my wrists sit at a natural angle. They only cock downward when I go to the brake levers.

16

auto208562,

Yes.

As I understand your question, nothing seems out of order to me. You will almost never have as sure braking on the hoods or feel as stable braking as you will braking in the drops.

In general, when descending and braking, you are trying to slow your bike down, but the only thing slowing your body down is your ability to keep yourself with your bike. The laws of physics are trying to keep your body moving at the speed of your bike before you applied the brakes. Only your grip on your bike is keeping you from separating from your bike and continuing down the descent ahead of your bike. When you are on the hoods, you have a very high center of gravity that is usually above your hoods.

As your bike slows, the natural tendency is for you body to continue forward over the top of your bike. In part, your grip on the hoods is slowing/keeping your upper body from moving forward over the top of your bike and on down the road ahead of your bike.

At the same time you are trying to keep your upper body on top/behind your bike as you descend, you are trying to pull your brake lever back towards your body. This motion is a contrary motion to trying to maintain your grip on the hoods. In addition, as you pull the lever back towards yourself, this motion complements the forces that are trying to move your body forward over the top of your bike as you begin to slow down. Almost like a tuck and roll motion only it is your hands that are tucking and your body that wants to roll over your hands.

I never feel as confident descending on the hoods as descending in the drops, for multiple reasons.

One, descending in the drops lowers one’s center of gravity. Now the handlebars are generally right in the middle of your center of gravity for forward motion.

Two, now you have something to push against, your handlebar, to keep you from going forward over the top of your bike.

Three, you now have a lever, the handlebar, to pull against as you pull the brake lever back to begin slowing your bike. This time, this motion is not complementary to the motion that is trying to separate you from your bike as your bike slows down.

Four, getting in the drops is almost as aerodynamic as being on your aerobars. This will enable you to descend faster. Granted, one of the other ways to help slow yourself down is to sit up to catch more air and this postion usually places one on the hoods.

In general, when descending, it is recommended that one get in the drops if the descent requires braking or is technical in terms of difficulty. There are two primary reasons for this. One is lowering your center of gravity which greatly reduces the likelihood that you will endo (do an end over your bike) as or if you need to brake. And two, in the drops you have better and more sure control of your bike to manage a technical descent.

17

Thanks. I understand. Will tilt the bars slightly.

18

Thanks for the overview of riding on the hoods and drops. Makes a lot of sense and much needed since like I said, never had a road bike.

19

Thanks Chip. Appreciate the tips.

20

If you have not ridden on a bike with drops much in the past you will eventually build up the small muscles that get used differently braking on the hoods rather than braking on the drops. With aero brake levers and when on the drops you are essentially squeezing the brake levers, and most people have a pretty strong grip. When you brake from the hoods you are pressing your fingers a little more sideways, which takes a little getting used to.

It is a personal thing, but I would disagree a little bit with Wants2RideFast. I personally prefer to brake and corner on the hoods rather than the drops when stuff gets technical. It may be due to my physiology (super long legs, shortish torso) but I find that when I am in the drops I feel like I am too far out over the front wheel when stuff gets sketchy. Putting my hands on the hoods seems to give a good fore/aft balance on the bike. If you watch a cyclocross race (where stuff will be much more technical and require more braking) you will still see a lot of racers on the hoods. A lot of guys have bar-top levers to be even more upright. Only the most aggressive racers go in the drops through hard turns and braking.