Yesterday (Monday) I had a business dinner with 4 avid golfers. The buzz was John Daly. what a golfer, yadda yadda yadda.
To be honest I was very much out of the loop. On Sunday I had run the Austin Marathon and that evening had read about Marco Panatani. The last thing on my mind was an over weight golfer. I had run with my very best friend who was recovering form a bicycle accident that broke his back, ruptured a disc and fractured his pelvis in 4 places. So my perspective on John Daly was a little jaded.
When I didn’t join in the adulation I unfortunately voiced my opinion on who the athlete was in my view. Needless to say I got hammered pretty good. Nothing against John Daly but no wonder America’s kids are overweight. Daly gets millions for hitting a ball 265 times over a 4 day period while the guy that won the marathon got maybe $10,000.
Again noting against golf but I believe there is some difference between a skill and athleticism. Am I just in a funk or my values misplaced. Perhaps I need a dictionary!!
I remember back in the early 90’s when the Toronto Blue Jays won the baseball championship. They were playing Philadelphia and a lot of the Philly players were over weight unathletic looking guys and taking a lot of heat in the Toronto press for it. I remember one of them saying “we’re baseball players, not athletes.”
I’d say you’re right on. Having more than a little hand-eye coordination hardly qualifies one as an athlete. A friend of mine refers to golf as a ‘skilled activity’ and I have to agree…it certainly takes skill, but hardly requires true athletic ability. Hell, they don’t even carry their own bags. My friends and I often get into the discussion of what qualifies as a ‘sport’ vs. a ‘game’/‘skilled activity’ and it’s generally unanimous that golf is among the latter - of course, this discussion usually comes about on long trips home from races, so the discussion panel on hand is of the same mind-set.
Marathoners might think baseball players are fat and out of shape. Baseball players might think marathoners are scrawny weaklings. What’s more important: slowtwitch endurance or hand-eye coordination and exposive power. Depends on your crowd I guess - most people will place a lot of importance on things they do well and denigrate things they don’t. Either way, there are only a very small number of people who are truly elite marathoners or pro golfers or baseball players - having done all three at a very mediocre level, I respect all of them.
I live in a “golf course community” where this question is often debated using Tiger Woods as a great athlete.
My neighbors laugh at me as I run or ride in the mornings while they ride their golf carts to the clubhouse for another round of golf, many so out of shape they can hardly walk from the cart to the ball!
Often I stop on my run (5 miles out) at our “fitness center” to get a drink of water…sorry no Gatorade or carbopro here just water! I am constantly amazed at the pace of those on the treadmill or stationary “bike (?)” How slow can you go? Heart Rate over 100? No way! These are fitness people looking to lose a pound or two so they can have another burger & fries.
Tiger Woods is certainly skilled at hitting a little white ball and chasing it. (Hey I shoot in the 90’s any hotter than that I don’t go out). But an athlete.?.. what’s his heart rate during a round? How fast can he run a marathon? after a bike ride and a swim?
The concept of “athlete” obviously covers a wide range of activities/skills/fitness levels. While Daly surely doesn’t fit the mold of what one envisions when they talk about an athlete, I think he should be considered one based on the set of skills he has developed over the years. As a comparison, what should ballet dancers be considered? They obviously have a fitness level beyond what most will ever attain.
I have often joked, that if you can do an activity with a cigarette in your mouth (golf, Drive a car) or if it is scored by judges (figure skating) it is a game not a sport. But it does not mean there is no athletic talent involved, and the body has to fit the activity. Most offensive linemen have a belly, are they athletes. How about shot putters are they? Or a heavy weight wrestler? My point is the same as JHC we over value what we do and under value what they do.
But John Daly the cause of fat kids, what the heck is that!! I sure it is John jamming cheeseburgers, chips, and ho ho’s down their grills.
I really do have nothing against golfers at all. I have played the game (low 90’s). I think Tiger has elevated the game as he does work at his fitness. I also played minor league ball for 2 years in the mid-60’s (Iam old).So I feel I have some perspective
I guess as someone stated more eloquently earlier- athleticism is in the eye of the beholder.
I find it funny how some of the posts refer to guys with bellies not being athletes in other sports but I’ve certainly seen my share of “clysedales” at races who seriously whip my ass and I’m skinny.
I do agree that I don’t appreciate many other “sports” and their athletes but I won’t deny that they haven’t worked hard at it. To get good at golf, it does take a lot of practice.
btw, www.m-w.com says Athlete: a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
so regardless of whether we argue if golf is a game/sport (another topic that my coach and bunch of my club members argued over; he didn’t consider syncro swim a sport) Daly is still “technically” an athlete.
Incidentally, I do agree that I find it stupid how I can’t run/jog on the green to my golf ball. (I was told by some golf guy that you can only “run” if its an emergency.) So of course what do I do instead? Jump in the cart and speed like a maniac.
Pulling Tiger Woods into your argument is not a good plan. He is an athlete by any measure. I am sure with minimal training he could whip most of our butts.
To me an athlete is one that either sustains running or physical exertion.
Athleticism and skill are different things. Race car drivers, golfers, jockeys, plumbers, dart throwers, horseshoe pitchers, etc all display some skill and coordinated movements (as do arse-scratchers), but they are not athletes. One could interpret “skill in psort” to say poker players are athletes.
One could debate whether baseball players are athletes since 90% of the game is standing in one spot. I agree, the players are not athletes, us pitchers (or ex-pitchers) are.
Folks can always say “No one can say what an athlete is or isn’t”, and I think that’s a load. If you’re in doubt of whether one is an athlete or not … ask me and I’ll tell you.
Sustained effort or exertion is a good indicator for me.
If you look at sport as a balance between three things: cardiovascular requirement, muscular strength, and coordination or skill, each sport has it’s own blend. I think you picked the two sports at opposite ends of the cardio-skill continuum: running and golf. Sports like rugby and football probably require the most even blend of the three.
On the other hand if golf is a sport then so is billiards.
I would add muscular endurance to this list. Otherwise, I think you are dead on when you say various sports require differing blends of these things. I’ve been a competitive swimmer, a 8-handicap golfer, a high school and college wrestler, and now a triathlete. They are all sports in their own right. I have often had to defend golf as a sport, for the obvious reasons. While golf is a sport in which those with talent can do well from time to time, it is mostly the athletes who don’t solely rely on their pure skills that are consistently at the top. Tiger Woods is an exceptional golfer. What I think sets him so far apart from the rest of the professional field is his fitness and his mental game. Others before him that shared these traits would include Nick Faldo and Gary Player. If you look at John Daly’s career, he runs very hot and cold. So he is a very skilled golfer, but his other failings keep him from being consistently near the top.
One could draw similar references from baseball (Babe Ruth vs. Mark McGuire), football (Refridgerator Perry vs. Jerry Rice), and other sports. These might be some extreme examples, but I think the point is there.
Often I stop on my run (5 miles out) at our “fitness center” to get a drink of water…sorry no Gatorade or carbopro here just water! I am constantly amazed at the pace of those on the treadmill or stationary “bike (?)” How slow can you go? Heart Rate over 100? No way! These are fitness people looking to lose a pound or two so they can have another burger & fries.
Pretty harsh judgement considering you know nothing about them other than how fast they are going on a treadmill at the instant you walk in. Before my brother died of Leukemia he would drag himself to the gym everyday if only to walk/limp at 2mph…he wasn’t worried about another burger & fries…stupid ass comment.
As someone that worked in a gym during college years, I would say most peope walking very slowly on a treadmill are rehabilitating injuries. They need something very low impact and pools aren’t as common as treadmills.
“To me an athlete is one that either sustains running or physical exertion.”
I’m not sure that’s an effective definition. A baseball pitcher (especially a closer) doesn’t necessarily sustain running or physical exertion. Neither does the DH in American League Baseball… nor the place kicker on a football team… nor does the goalie on soccer or hockey team.
I mean during my college years (after baseball days were over) working in a private health club (Moffett’s Gym in KC), those walking very slowly were recovering from back, knee, ankle, etc surgery or had arthritis, plantar fasciatis (sp?), etc. Most folks looking to lose weight realize they need to walk at a decent pace. Very few folks looking to get in shape walk veeeery slowly, unless it’s the only pace they can manage.
I only pointed this out so people would make reasonably accurate judgements of others. It’s impossible to not make instantaneous judgements/impressions, but we should realize there are alternative possibilities.
Granted, in the end, who really cares … I agree with that. It was one thing that I had first-hand knowledge with, so I pointed something out.
I have often teased my dad that golf isn’t a sport. It’s more like a death sentence. But the reason I say that is in large part because he’s a very good golfer (2 or 3 handicap) and I am not (never broken 110). And I don’t particularly like the game anyway, so I haven’t really tried to improve.
To be a sport, the activity requires several elements. Athleticism as defined by strength and speed, motor skill, and something that no-one has mentioned, a competitive element. That’s why lifting rocks in your backyard is not a sport, and lifting those same rocks in a strongman competition is a sport.
Golf, like it or not, does have all three elements. Motor skill and competition are undeniable, but it also requires some speed and strength to get the club to hit the ball with enough velocity to make it travel 300 yards. The difference between golf and track, for example, is just that the proportions are different.
Golf is also more accessible to many than other sports, which also accounts for its popularity. Its easier to get 3 other guys together, most of whom aren’t “in shape” and play a round of golf, even though all 4 players are of widely differing abilities. Same with bowling. Much more difficult is to get together 100 guys for a bike race.