Hi everyone…I need some advice on making the switch from long-term biker to triathlete in the next 1-2 years. Whilst I have no more goals for TTs I would next year like to complete one or two 70.3s and I think it’s likely I’ll be somewhere in the 5:00 to 5:15 hr range. Additional goals would be to run a sub 40min 10K and a sub 1:30 HM (as single efforts). The main problem I can see is balancing the running and cycling given they don’t seem to complement each other due to the different muscle usage. I currently average 8-9hrs training a week including racing (in winter more like 9-12hrs). I was thinking of replacing some of this with one or two run sessions a week (one focusing on speed and the other on endurance) and then add on a couple of swim sessions focusing initially largely on technique.
In the past when I’ve done running I’ve fallen below expectations (42min 10K and 1:34 HM) but I was training maybe only 5hrs a week then (mix of cycling and running quite equally) and this is presumably because my body has adapted to being a cyclist where I could ride for example a 25mile TT in 51-55mins depending on course. Do people think the regime outlined in the first paragraph will likely deliver the results I want? If I train for tri will I likely see the marginal increase I seek in run performance?
Work primarily on your running and swimming this winter. Keep a couple of threshold 1hr days on the bike through the winter and bring the volume back up as spring approaches. If you are capable of a 51-52 40k you will likely be able to ride a 2:15 without too much difficulty and still have legs for the run. Unless you are just an atrocious swimmer (40-45 HIM swim), you are setting the bar too low at 5 hours.
Im a cyclist and when I want to run fast in the off season etc I find that I just need to maintain my aerobic capacity with some 1-2hr hard rides while doing 2-3 runs/week to readapt to the different stimulus. I find that I really have to focus on working up to running long distances gradually and getting used to the intense muscular fatigue that I don’t get in cycling. My other runs focus on high speed intervals and lots of hills to work on my form and turnover. Usually this all adds up to about 20 miles a week and it puts in me in good shape to run fast 5k’s and 10k’s. I don’t usually do any serious races but I’ve done 5km TT’s on my own and cracked 17 minutes. You’ve got the engine, just work on the muscular endurance and the form and you should do well, I don’t think you need a tonne of mileage.
Are you only going to run two days a week, or are those just your focus sessions? You are never going to be as fast a runner as you could be on two runs a week. Running is much different than cycling where you can hammer two or three times a week and be good. It is much better to run every day and you will be much less likely to be injured.
Chad
“Work primarily on your running and swimming this winter. Keep a couple of threshold 1hr days on the bike through the winter and bring the volume back up as spring approaches. If you are capable of a 51-52 40k you will likely be able to ride a 2:15 without too much difficulty and still have legs for the run. Unless you are just an atrocious swimmer (40-45 HIM swim), you are setting the bar too low at 5 hours.”
→ Well at the moment my swimming is atrocious but then I’ve only done 3 or 4 sessions and have not had any coaching or done any drills. The 70.3 estimate is based on a friend’s time (predominantly a biker and similar ability level to me) on a slow 70.3 course. You may be quite right that I’m setting the bar too low but the way I see it 2012 will possibly be a year of transition and 2013 will likely see me do myself justice.
“Im a cyclist and when I want to run fast in the off season etc I find that I just need to maintain my aerobic capacity with some 1-2hr hard rides while doing 2-3 runs/week to readapt to the different stimulus. I find that I really have to focus on working up to running long distances gradually and getting used to the intense muscular fatigue that I don’t get in cycling. My other runs focus on high speed intervals and lots of hills to work on my form and turnover. Usually this all adds up to about 20 miles a week and it puts in me in good shape to run fast 5k’s and 10k’s. I don’t usually do any serious races but I’ve done 5km TT’s on my own and cracked 17 minutes. You’ve got the engine, just work on the muscular endurance and the form and you should do well, I don’t think you need a tonne of mileage.”
→ This is interesting - I’d love to be able to crack 17 minutes off of 20miles a week of running, and is also the sort of ratio I was thinking of so I don’t lose too much biking strength. I suspect it will be hard hard going from being a fairly quick biker to someone who is going to be much further down the pecking order at tri. At least it’ll keep things interesting.
"Are you only going to run two days a week, or are those just your focus sessions? You are never going to be as fast a runner as you could be on two runs a week. Running is much different than cycling where you can hammer two or three times a week and be good. It is much better to run every day and you will be much less likely to be injured. "
→ That was my plan - twice a week. I’m not bothered about becoming a really quick runner - just the run targets outlined would be a good step for me.
I’m not a coach, so take my advise at the value it is given: free.
My experience agress with what Chad said and what I read over and over again here. I saw the most significant improvments in my runs when I switched to running consistently 5-6 days a week even if each run was much shorter. As in, if I only had the time to run 3 hours, I improved much more running 6 30 minute sessions compared to 3 one hour runs. I was able to pull a 1:30 half of that by only ramping up the distance of one run 1 mile/week the two months before the race.
Swimming is going to be a big question mark as it is much more about technique compared to running and biking which are more about fitness. If you don’t get your swim into good shape, you could start the bike totally blown.
Are you only going to run two days a week, or are those just your focus sessions? You are never going to be as fast a runner as you could be on two runs a week. Running is much different than cycling where you can hammer two or three times a week and be good. It is much better to run every day and you will be much less likely to be injured.
Chad
Chad/torrey, thanks for the input. Currently I am doing two run sessions a week…one is always around 8 min/mile pace and the other is in the 6:40-7:10 pace depending on distance. The latter has started giving me a little medial tibial stress I.e. Muscle irritation, which I know is due to over striding which I cannot help when i run flat out. Should I be doing more sessions like the former or even slower?
Since you need no advice on cycling, I’ll advise you to do these two things:
Do a forum search on BarryP’s running advice. He recommends doing 6 runs per week. 3 of them should be short and easy. When I started, I did these runs after each bike ride. The other 3 runs consist of 2 tempo workouts and 1 long run at a pace between easy and tempo.
Start reading the monthly “Fish” thread. You’ll get good ideas on swim workouts that will make the winter months fun.
Yes, 6 runs, 3 rides and 3 swims each week and sub 5 is your’s.
Run 5-6 times a week, not twice. That’s your biggest mistake. 5-6 times a week at 20-30 minutes is far more beneficial (in many ways) than 2 times an hour.
I’m in a similar position to as a cyclist moving across to multi sport although i’m aiming at powermans for starters. The biggest challenge coming from cycling is that there is no eccentric load in cycling where in running its high. In basic terms its the thing that makes your legs hurt, especially after running down hill.**** One thing you can do to improve the speed of adaption is weight training working on mass strength. Exercises like deep squats are great for it as they also promote flexibility and core strength as well as bringing hamstring strength up to speed quicker as its a muscle not really used cycling. Once you get acclimatised to the eccentric contractions and build a good base, around 8 weeks, you will be able to cut back on your running volume where you would want to focus more on speed and technique work.
I’m in a similar position to as a cyclist moving across to multi sport although i’m aiming at powermans for starters. The biggest challenge coming from cycling is that there is no eccentric load in cycling where in running its high. In basic terms its the thing that makes your legs hurt, especially after running down hill.**** One thing you can do to improve the speed of adaption is weight training working on mass strength. Exercises like deep squats are great for it as they also promote flexibility and core strength as well as bringing hamstring strength up to speed quicker as its a muscle not really used cycling. Once you get acclimatised to the eccentric contractions and build a good base, around 8 weeks, you will be able to cut back on your running volume where you would want to focus more on speed and technique work.
Yes, one of the key differences is the inverse relationship with running and cycling with regard to eccentric/concentric muscle contraction. So with the squat for instance, you’d be getting eccentric (muscle lengthening under load) hamstring contraction when pushing up? Would this not be offset by concentric contraction of the hamstrings on the way down? Presumably not if you’ve had good results which you attribute to squats. I suspect also this will have some impact on your cycling speed (negatively). I have a theory that the reason cyclists sometime struggle with running is because of the heavy musculature in the legs we develop…just think of the difference wearing a pair of racing flats and then think of how much extra bulk us cyclists have to move quickly. In the same way I’m seeing my legs sink when I swim.
yes leg muscle mass is another strong reason for why cyclist suffer with running and swimming. With the squats they really shouldn’t impact to much on your cycling speed, if anything cycling speed will increase given time and correct training methods are used. you may see negative results to begin with but over time you will improve. With the eccentric weight training I also should have added that lifting tempo is also very important. With the squat as the main example you would go down slowly and controlled for 5 seconds then come up in 1 second. Your quads will be the muscles that control the “braking” on the way down in the squat just like in running.