Thought some of you may be interested in this.
Due to Morton’s Syndrome (short first metatarsal), I get occassional pain in my left forefoot between the second & third metatarsals due to ligament stress. It mostly affects me on longer, higher-intensity rides and rides with lots of hills (ie. lots of “pushing”).
Since I’m thinking about doing Ironman next season, I thought I’d give a midsole cleat position a try to see if I can “fix” the issue. A standard cleat position places the pedal spindle pretty-much right under the “bad” area on my forefoot. So, the idea is to shift the pressure further back on my foot to (hopefully) relieve the stress.
Anyway, here are a few pics of my old Shimano TR-02s that I modified…
The hardware is all stainless steel. I used a few taps with a hammer to conform the base of each T-nut to the shoe’s footbed, and the screws are ground so that they are just long enough that they’re below the surface of the footbed. I don’t feel any of it since it’s under the plastic part of the Superfeet insoles. You’ll also notice the metatarsal pads in the forefoot of each shoe. These are to provide a bit of support & cushioning for the same issue that compelled me to give the midsole cleats a shot.
I just made the change Monday after finishing IM Kansas 70.3 Sunday. So, I’ve only done a couple of very easy 30-minute rides on the rollers to dial in the saddle height and start the acclimation process. So, I’m not sure whether it’s going to be a solution or not. But, overall, it doesn’t feel as weird as I expected and the actual modification was pretty straightforward. I’ll follow-up after putting more miles on the change.
Due to the stiffness of the carbon sole, moving the cleat shouldn’t affect the pressure on your bad area that much. If that is your goal you should try some softer soled shoes like a nylon or something where it will have a higher peak pressure at the insertion location then something stiffer which will give a broader smaller pressure
You are, of course, correct - to a point.
Since it’s a marginal issue (ie. it only rears it’s head on more intense efforts, like rides with lots of climbing), I’m hoping just changing the lever arm (ie. shifting the area of my foot where the “pushing” is concentrated) will be enough to make a difference. Kinda like the difference between doing squats with a flat foot (midsole cleat) vs on your toes (climbing with a standard cleat). I guess we’ll see… That’s why I modified my old pair of TR-02s first. Didn’t cost much to try.
I have been reading about Friel and the midfoot cleat position. I have a question before I get to cutting up an old pair. How did you determine where to drill the holes laterally as it doesn’t look by your pic or Joe’s that the cleat is equidistant from the lateral edges. It appears to be much closer to the instep?
I get the North South line bisecting the East West line, but on that East West, how did you determine where to drill?
Also, I have some SPD cleats from my MTB setup, but my nuts for the screws are one big piece, not individual like yours? Did you cut the cleat nut in half to get 2 pieces?
I have been reading about Friel and the midfoot cleat position. I have a question before I get to cutting up an old pair. How did you determine where to drill the holes laterally as it doesn’t look by your pic or Joe’s that the cleat is equidistant from the lateral edges. It appears to be much closer to the instep?
I get the North South line bisecting the East West line, but on that East West, how did you determine where to drill?
Also, I have some SPD cleats from my MTB setup, but my nuts for the screws are one big piece, not individual like yours? Did you cut the cleat nut in half to get 2 pieces?
It is, in fact, closer to the instep. If I were to position the cleat centered (l-to-r) on the line, my shoes would have definitely hit the crankarms. And, that would have resulted in one of the screws not having a secure base, since the sole of my shoes are “dished-out” in that area. I happened to use Shimano shoes with the same sole as Joe used. So, I used the pics on his blog as a guide, and drilled mine in the same place.
If you don’t have to work around the “dished-out” sole, you have more options. But, you’ll likely still need to “cheat” toward the insole to keep your shoes from hitting the crankarms when clipped-in.
I did not end up using bike cleat nuts, like Joe did (although I did go through the trouble of finding a pair). IMO, they’re too thick to be comfortable - even under a footbed. I used stainless steel T-nuts from the harward store and stainless steel bolts. I did have to grind the bolts down a little to get just the right length. But, that’s no biggie.
Hope that helps.
Ok that makes sense…kind of a home made Q-factor. Seems to me with the lateral play of the SPD/Crank Brothers type 2-bolt there is some ‘wiggle room’? Better to error a few mm’s to the instep and then nudge it back to center with the washer?
Thanks
How is the cleat position working out for you? Always made sense to me to get more forward on the spindle. Looking forward to trying it.
There is some “wiggle room”, but not a ton. Even with the holes drilled a little toward the instep on mine, I still had to slide the cleat itself all the way over to get my Q approximately the same as with standard cleats.
I only had time to try the new cleat position briefly, as I didn’t want to make such a drastic change to my position right after race season had started. I plan to experiment more during the off-season. I will say that it didn’t feel as completely weird as I expected, though. And, I also didn’t notice any significant loss in power, despite not really dialing in the position. (All I did was lower my saddle 1/2" and slide it back a touch to keep my reach the same.)
What kinds of insoles are those? They don’t look like the cheap ones that come with most shoes? I’m thinking I might need/want to try a beefier insole to not feel that cleat nut assembly on my arch?
Superfeet Grey - cycling specific.
Mine are pretty smooth. They’d be fine under the stock insoles. But, if you use actual cleat nuts, you’d definitely feel them. You may even feel them under the Superfeet. Actual cleat nuts are THICK.
Ok that does it…I’m going to get stainless t-nuts and bolts. Is that something you think I could find at Lowes? I have to go do a ton of crap there today. Quite honestly have never heard of a ‘t-nut’ until now. Thanks
I assume you’ve ridden it a bunch by now. How is it? And are there issues w/toe overlap?
I assume you’ve ridden it a bunch by now. How is it? And are there issues w/toe overlap?
You mean since I said I only tried it briefly a few minutes ago??? 
I had to go to a Sears Hardware to find them. No love at Lowes or Home Depot. I’ve also had luck finding “weird” stuff like this at the local True Value in the past.
The hard part is the stainless part. If you’re willing to go with carbon steel or the like, you may find them more easily. Also, don’t feel like you have to find M5 (or whatever bike cleat bolts are). You can do standard (ie. not metric) hardware. I did, since I couldn’t find what I wanted in stainless & metric. Take a cleat with you and figure out what your options are.
I assume you’ve ridden it a bunch by now. How is it? And are there issues w/toe overlap?
You mean since I said I only tried it briefly a few minutes ago???
well? Have you?
pretty sure that your more recent post wasn’t up when i posted mine, i just saw the gap btwn the 1st post and this one.
I was just bustin’ your balls.
To actually answer your question…
I seem to remember there was a small bit of toe overlap at just the right place in the pedal stroke (58cm Cervelo Dual frame, size 45 Shimano TR-02, 180mm Dura Ace 7800 cranks). But, it certainly wasn’t anything to cause concern. It’s not like there’s a need to turn the wheel that far on your tri bike very often. And, when there is (tight 180* turns being about the only situation), it just takes a small bit of forethought to avoid the issue.
Could you repost your pictures?
Thanks,
Adam