Crying out for help- how to beat the virus?!

Triathlon Forum
22

I know that you are right, and that what you describe is a real and growing concern. When I got sick with whatever it was last February(for the first time in years), I was sick for three weeks before going to my doctor. The infection was in my throat, lungs, ears, and eyes. The doctor gave me amoxicillin, which knocked it back a bit, but it came back within a week. I went back, and they gave me Augmentin, which made it go away, or so it appeared. In total, I was sick with whatever it was(they never ran any tests) for over two months. For most of that time, I felt okay except for a really bad caugh that gave me headaches and made it impossible to sleep through the night.

It came back in October, and I went to the doctor, who gave me Augmentin, again. The bug went away, this time for about 6 weeks, before coming back after Christmas. Around New Year’s I went and got a Z-Pak, and it was gone in two days.

I realize that doctors want to use the smallest weapon they can to fight bugs so that the bugs don’t become resistant, but how long can you justify letting your patient remain sick when it’s clear that the treatment isn’t working?

What I found most interesting about this experience is that my PCP made me go through hoops and months of treatment before giving me a Z-Pak, but my wife went to a clinic for the first time and they gave her a Z-Pak first thing.

23

Before I start my rant, the best piece of advice posted on this board is to go see a Dr. 99.9999% chance you have a form of the rhinovirus (common cold). Dr. won’t be able to give you anything to cure it. But, there are drugs that can make life a lot more comfortable & aid your body in fighting off the bug during the duration. It always amazes me (and I am just as guilty) that triathletes may watch every last gram of fat or protein they put in their body, but the denial over getting sick & the avoidance of going to a Dr. is rampant within the supposedly healthy community/sport we dwell in. It is not a sign of weakness to goto a Dr. people!

Now, onto the posts: rroof: at last–somebody posting who knows at least something of what they are talking about.

A few facts to clear up the absolutely horrible advice that has just been dispensed:

Antibiotics will do almost nothing against the rhino virus (and its relatives); rhino virus is the common cold & no offense, but you have to be an idiot to catch it–basically mucus-to-mucus contact (so wash your hands alot & don’t pick your nose or rub your eyes). No offense on the idiot comment intended, as I am a proud member of the club. The only combat currently known to a virus is your bodies’ own defense system & time. How long? I caught a nasty bought of the same bug & was laid up for almost two weeks starting 12/26. Temp 105, hacking up mucus plugs, etc. These are usually not infections, but your bodies’ reactions to the inflamation that the bug causes in the various mucus membranes in the body. It is now a month later & I still have a residual cough from the lung irritation caused by all the fun stuff your body produces–annoying. Wife caught it & 4 days later with minimal rest is 100%. Hits everyone differently. Taking antibiotics, which do knock out bacterial infections, as a preventative or a pseudo-cure against a virusis is a really, really, really bad idea & the medical community is finally realizing this & not recommending it anymore as basically you are helping the bug mutate/build resistance/make it stronger for the next person + it may weaken your bodies’ natural defenses (jury is way out on this one). The rhino virus can lead to bacterial infection, but usually this only occurs if you are working in an environment that is relatively unhealthy to begin with (air-quality wise) or if you manage to get some of the bacteria into your bloodstream via direct introduction. How do you know if you have a bacterial infection? You will start feeling really, really bad, and skin color changes (semi-jaundiced looking is a good indication) are a usual symptom; this is due to the rising levels of toxin in your body. Then whack it with the Z pack or other agressive antibiotics; though by this point your Dr. is probably going to put you on two or three even more agressive treatments. BTW: the chances of a bacterial infection following the rino virus is like .0001%, so don’t sweat it too much.

“But I am coughing up yellow/brown/green phlegm & the home medical books/internet say that is a sign of a bacterial infection”. Sure, its a sign, but increasingly the med community is recognizing that it is even more commonly a symptom of the rino virus and are avoiding prescribing antibiotics that may do more long-term harm than good.

I’m not a Dr, I just play one on Slowtwitch (but my father, brother-in-law and neighbor are & on this they are all in pretty close agreement).

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Mopdahl - Thanks!

JMorrisey: no offense inteded. Just to make things even more “confusing” for you. You mentioned that the amoxicillin helped for a few days. You were then given Augmentin which helped a little longer. Guess what? Augmentin is amoxicillin and clavulonic acid (I won’t go into details, but same basic antibiotic) and that “made it go away.” Since bronchitis/pneumonia and other upper respiratory infections are generally caused by the same class of pathogens in otherwise “normal”, healthy people - a cure is easy but I would look more into the “cause” (i.e. overtraining if it were me :slight_smile:

Now don’t forget to wash those hands!!!

25

I am aware that Augmentin is amoxicillin. I just figured that you did too, so I wasn’t going to insult your intelligence by pointing it out. Don’t worry, I don’t get offended too easily. ;p

I have observed that I get sick most often after swim meets. It’s probably a combination of a whole lot of people being in close contact, in and around water, getting water in my ears, working too hard, etc.

Generally, my hygiene habits are very good, but there are circumstances, for example, the pool, where there isn’t a lot you can do to isolate yourself from other peoples’ germs.

Mopdahl: Not sure if you were talking about me, but if so, my truly horrible advice was to go see the doctor, and if it was the same bacterial infection that I got, to get a prescription for antibiotics. If he already took amoxicillin, it stands to reason that he needs something stronger, hence azithromycin. I assumed that his doctor would give him something appropriate. Anyway, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you.

You ask for medical advice on the Internet, you get the opinions of monkeys like me. And it’s hard to tell the monkeys apart.

26

check for TWAR and any mycoplasma-thing. Very cold feel-a-like symptoms. Better be safe than sorry. These things have knocked out tougher dudes than you… erh… well i guess.

Otherwise, try ginger and honey in warm water. Buy something expensive and watch porn.

27

Not trying to pick a fight.

More than likely, you didn’t have a bacteria infection, but a version of the flu/cold. The weird thing about these viruses, and the reason they are able to keep going & going, is their ability to mutate.

Rhino is often like this:

Day 1-4; you’ve got it but you don’t know it. Incubation usually lasts 3-5 days & then the symptoms hit.

Day 4-10; usually starts in the nasal membranes; sore throat is a result of the drip. migrates nicely down into the lungs. inflamation occurs–body produces all sorts of fun stuff fighting it off. Usually around day 3 is when most people goto see their doc claiming they have a bronchial infection. They can cough up brown phleghm on command. Doc says, ok, probable infection & prescribes zpack or similar. 2-3 days later they are feeling better and they credit the zpack for their recovery. Urban myth. Usually this runs its course in the average human in 4-6 days after initial symptoms start showing up, so you would have gotten better anyway.

jmorrissey; yours is an interesting case & mimics my recent fun with the bug—because it mutates, you can basically catch it & re catch various forms of it over a period of 2-3 months. This is how the flu kills so many old people–they keep regetting it & it just wears the body out. For me, I only get sick about every 3-4 years, but when I do it is a long-term biowar within my body. Most likely, assuming I don’t get cancer or hit by a truck, I’ll die as a result of pneumonia brought on by the flu when I’m in my late 70s to early 90s—its just what my body is extremely vulnerable to.

Most indoor public pools are just a beautiful breeeding ground for all sorts of airborne bugs. Constant heat & humidity create a nice petri dish. On our college swim team at least 4-6 swimmers would get a nice bout of mono or similar illness during the season.

30

Fenoximetylpenicillinkalium

This is what I´ve been eating. I doubt that this has helped me as I suggest I´m on a virus. Yes, I´ve had bloodwork done but haven´t gotten the word from the doc due to the weekend.

I absolutely agree with the stupidity to hit the antibiotics “just in case” but oftentimes it feels like a waste of time to be sick for a while only to get antibiotics after 10 days and then be well in a day or two but as always, it´s easy to smart in hindsight…

And Francois; I´m not THAT sick! But keep a healthy distance from me when we ride together in AZ just in case:)

Funny thing is that I spent the better part of the weekend watching the Swedish Champs in XC skiing. Great athletes, but man they get sick all the time! It´s common knowledge in Sweden that our skiers are very “fragile” , almost to the point where it´s a joke. One guy was interviewed today on the sidelines, one of our countrys best, and he had been out of commission for 14 weeks due to a virus!!

What the hell kind of virus is that? And more importantly, what are the tests done to identify that virus. What does the doctors check for? Is it just a white bloodcell count or what? Will a virus always be seen on a white bloodcell count?

Anyway, thanks for all the input on this matter!

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In my most humble opinion, I think todays society is laden with too much drugs, everytime a commercial comes on its an advertisment for a new DRUG, WTF, I cant remember this kinda advertising when i grew up.

My momma raised me the old fashined way, NO DRUGS FOR ANYTHING, If I had a sore throat she would querry me as to why I didnt want to go to school and then after figuring out that it was a legitimate sore throat, she prescribed toasted bread and ginger ale, that always did the trick, for colds, it was chicken soup, for anything else it was a swift kick in the arse and off to school I went. This, I think is what built up my immune system today, i cant recall the last time I was sick, 10 years ago maybe if that. Ive traveled the world and never got sick, I spent 3 years in Africa and never took malaria pills but my buddies did and died from it, I can be around sick people and never catch a thing, I never wash my hands, you may not want to shake my hand after comming out of the bathroom, ha, but I believe that ones body needs germs and bacteria to combat germs and bacteria, it works for me.

Thanks Momma, Im healthy because of you.

and yes I too am holding wood just like franswa,hehheeheheh

34

Heavy D -

You are correct - almost. Until you contract HepC or Ghiardia or Legionairre or some other nasty travelers malady that has nothing to do with your one’s healthy immune status. A “strong” immune system is great (or more precisely, more “developled”) until you do get a simple cut, then staph, then MRSA, then oh sh&^t.

Antibiotics are often also referred to as “strong” and that also disturbs me. There is no “strong” - some are bactericidal (the chemical kills the bacteria) or bacteriostatic (most are) - they inhibit the replication/growth of the bugger (since they have a separate DNA/RNA/Cell wall make than humans - we can target that chemically). There is no ONE, universal antibiotic that gets all bacteria. Most are specific for certain types (Gram pos or neg, Pseudomonas, anaerobic bugs, etc.) There are some pretty broad spectrum (better terminology than “strong”) antibiotics out there, but they should only be used for mixed flora infections (uncommon in anyone reading this), then tapered to a more specific drug once the pathogen is identified. I suppose the term “strong” may come from the broad spectrum abx killing out your normal GI flora and causing the typical diarrhea/cramps/yeast superinfection.

Am I ranting again on this subject … Sorry
As a side note - I do notice that endurance athletes in general seem to get minor sicknesses more often (likely because of overtraining and the like), but the “sickness” seems to be more mild usually since our VO2 and energy levels are so high, so the symptoms are less than the typical overweight, smoking coach potato.

Also, remember we are all “colonized” all the time from our GI tract to our ears to our mouth etc. Infection is when the bacteria are actively replicating and doing bad things to tissues via their own chemicals (that are more nasty than our own developed antibiotics in many cases - ex. Botulinum). It is a constant battle/equilibrium in nature at best.

35

I had mono when I was in my freshman year of college. It wiped me out for the first semester. I was wiped out for 8 weeks, and I don’t know if I ever totally recovered. When I get overtrained, or after races, I almost always get sick. I can’t be sure that it is because of the mono, but I don’t recall having that problem when I was younger. It’s pretty humbling to be so sick that you can’t even get out of bed. For two months.

36

if it’s really a virus then there is nothing you can do except for sitting aronud and waiting what will happen

perhaps you just have something like a flu virus where they always say that you have 2 choices: take medicine and after 14 days everything is ok or you don’t take anything, but then you have to wait 2 weeks until you’re healthy again

and if you’re gonna go head to head with francois at IMAZ, I can give you some Anti-French jokes to try to make him angry :slight_smile:

Florian
.

38

Jonas will come see us for the AZ Camp.
I haven’t heard him say he was racing AZ (yet :slight_smile: )
well, I am!

39

check for mould sensitivity…in bad cases it flares up like the symptoms you describe…it happened to me!

I had to give up swimming in the local indoor pool because of it…thought it was the chlorine but it was the mould…

check for mould in your home…I know this sounds a bit far-fetched but mould could be the answer…hope this helps…

40

ok, here’s mama’s advice:

-red wine…drink 2 or 3 ounces a night (if you can, drink a bigger red…like a cab)

-sauna/steam room…do you have access? if so, go!

-water, water, water, water, water, water, water–you get the idea…drink it!

-get up and walk. if you’ve got a treadmill, walk on it really slowly for 10 minutes. don’t push it. if you feel better tomorrow, then walk for 15. if you need to go outside, do that, but bundle up. if it’s cold out, that’s ok. the cold air can kill evil germs–a little cold air goes a long way. getting moving a little can help heal the system

-chicken noodle soup. homemade is best. if you can’t make it, then call your sexiest girlfriend over who can help you out.

-if you have a deep cough even after you feel better, do not push your cardio system. otherwise, you’ll have that deep cough for a much longer time. After 20 years of getting at least 2 months worth of a deep, painful cough every winter, I finally figured out that if when I have the cough there will be no hard cardio activity…just low and slow walking for short amounts of time. generally in 2 weeks I would be healed with this tactic.

-fruit. eat it. it will make you better, faster.

-patience. you got sick for a reason. be patient. rest, don’t be stupid and go out for a long run or something crazy like that. ease up on the OTC drugs and let your body heal with rest, a little walking, fruits, clear broths, and water.

Call me in 4 days.

dr. kittycat

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Man, I’m such a geek. I was going to suggest you use a real operating system like Linux. :slight_smile:

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ ← fwiw

Trae
PS. I hope you do get better(and know you will), I had Mono when I was in Highschool, and it’s no fun at all.

43

Hope you are feeling better already, after so many good advices! I would just add that a tea spoon of honey with one whole lime juice each night helps the sore throat. Ditto on the Echinacea tea and zinc tabs. Lots of water and liquids. OJ. And sleep, sleep, sleep…

BTW, just finishing reading “Popular Music from Vittula”, great funny book! I think it was you that recommended here a few months back…

Feel better soon!

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The common cold is a funny thing. Ironically, despite the billions of dollars spent on OTC drugs, there is very little that you can do once you are sick - rest, and time are and always have been the best cure. OTC drugs can help reduce the key symptoms.

Holding off the common cold is also a strange business. Their are many theories there about how to do this. Staying healthy, physically fit and with 100% immune system functionality is always the best defence.

Somethings are a given. A few points I have learned along the way:

  1. You very likley will get sick at least once during the year/winter. Best advice - back off the training immediately and rest for 3 - 4 days and see which way things are heading. Don’t force it.

  2. Kids are breeding grounds for colds. When my son was first in school a few years ago, I had the winter from hell - I had 4 - 5 major bouts of common cold.

  3. Be very wary of anyting that goes deep into the lungs and is associated with flu like symptoms. This can lead to full blown pneumonia. I had a bad bout of pnuemonia 5 years ago. This was the sickest I have ever been in my life - three weeks in bed. Lost 10 pounds and just about all of my strength and fitness. Lungs never recovered fully and I lost 25% - 30% of my lung functionality.

  4. Best defence: Stay healthy. Keep well hydrated. Eat healthy. Be come a bit obsessed with washing your hands. Get plenty of rest. Historically, I would most often get sick after trade shows. Surprise surprise! You work very hard for 3 - 4 days straight, with little sleep, eating sometimes lousy food, and shaking hands with hundreds of people( I know disgusting).

Fleck

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Dr. kittycat do you take insurance? Best advice yet… “call your sexiest girlfriend over who can help you out.” I had a best friend / roomate in college who had this down to a science. I couldn’t believe the crap those girls would do to play mommy!