Crashes and racer conduct

Ok I’m a more than just a little miffed at some of you folks in Tri Land

We had a Car/ Triathlete on a bike, crash that blocked the course today.

we moved the car off the course but the medics could not move the racer until the paramedics showed up with a backboard and a C Collar.

I was the USAT marshal on scene and I along with a police officer was up course about 150 feet from the accident attemping to slow everyone down as we only had half of a lane open due to the injured racer and ambulance on course and emergency personel moving in and out of the roadway.

People you need to slow up when course marshals and police are yelling at you and flagging you down and there is an ambulance in the middle of the damn road.

I can’t count the number of racers that just blew on by, not to mention the one that hit a paramedic after ignoring us.

If I had time I would have taken down many of your race numbers and recomended a DQ for all.

I am just appaled

Eric

Oh and the racer is going to be OK no thanks to many in attendence

People you need to slow up when course marshals and police are yelling at you and flagging you down and there is an ambulance in the middle of the damn road.

Keep it safe guys, you never know if your going to be the next one down.

Where was this?

San Jose International
.

Sorry to hear about this. I was spectating the race (my friend’s first tri!!), and I heard the paramedics.

I would love to do this race next year, it looked really fun, but WHAT WAS UP WITH T2? The runner’s chute out of T2 CROSSED the cyclist’s chute in. You had a marshal placed there physically holding the runners back whenever a cyclist came through, what a nightmare!

That looked really dangerous, seems like there must have been a better way to set that up.

Leigh

It chills me to see a rider down. Last April, one of my old teammates from Sheeper had what may be a career ender, and I happened to drive by just as the paramedics were arriving for that one - MAJOR injuries.

Any report on the condition of the rider who went down today?

Yours is a thankless job, and unfortunately, you were a little too busy to worry about penalties or DQs for the dickheads who were too absorbed in their race to use sufficient caution at the site. People complain about penalties, but don’t bother to understand the necessity of riding to the right, passing with caution, etc.

I was tempted to stop, and would have if the paramedics weren’t on site. That’s the difference at my age, I’m a lot more concerned for a brother (sister?) in distress than for my own performance. You would think it would be the opposite, since the jerk who almost hit the paramedics truck was young enough to look forward to a lot of years of racing. Sh!t, at my age I don’t know if I’ll be back from one season to the next.

Peace to you.

It chills me to see a rider down. Last April, one of my old teammates from Sheeper had what may be a career ender, and I happened to drive by just as the paramedics were arriving for that one - MAJOR injuries.

Any report on the condition of the rider who went down today?

Yours is a thankless job, and unfortunately, you were a little too busy to worry about penalties or DQs for the dickheads who were too absorbed in their race to use sufficient caution at the site. People complain about penalties, but don’t bother to understand the necessity of riding to the right, passing with caution, etc.

I was tempted to stop, and would have if the paramedics weren’t on site. That’s the difference at my age, I’m a lot more concerned for a brother (sister?) in distress than for my own performance. You would think it would be the opposite, since the jerk who almost hit the paramedics truck was young enough to look forward to a lot of years of racing. Sh!t, at my age I don’t know if I’ll be back from one season to the next.

Peace to you. -------------------------------------------------------------------- He is going to be ok, mostly soft tissue injuries and thanks to his helmet only a mild headache.

Sorry to hear about this. I was spectating the race (my friend’s first tri!!), and I heard the paramedics.

I would love to do this race next year, it looked really fun, but WHAT WAS UP WITH T2? The runner’s chute out of T2 CROSSED the cyclist’s chute in. You had a marshal placed there physically holding the runners back whenever a cyclist came through, what a nightmare!

That looked really dangerous, seems like there must have been a better way to set that up.

Leigh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- yes I would agree that was a poor set up but we didn’t set the course, thats the RD’s job.

In prior years the run out was at the rear of T2 and there was no cross over. I have no idea why they changed it.

They can’t seem to get this to work, without making the transition layout unfair. Two years ago, they had the crossover where slow folks were coming out and some of the faster people were coming in, and “threading the needle” THAT was scary. When I came in, no one held up the runners, but the volunteer facing me waved me in. It was VERY close to a crash. Fortunately, I saw the runner (not easy with everyone who was milling around) in time to hit the brakes. Probably cost me my podium spot…

/sarcasm switch off

It’s a great race. I recommend it highly.

I’ll sleep better knowing the injuries weren’t serious. I’m accident prone, so I figure one of these days that will be me. I don’t think many racers think about what the police have to deal with, we just ass-u-me they’ll stop traffic.

I stopped to talk with a couple of the cops at CaliforniaMan (after the race) and they were all surprised to hear an athlete thank them for all their hard work. It ain’t easy standing out there in the hot sun in those uniforms, holding up irate motorists who probably can’t even spell triathlon.

Wow, I’m really sorry to hear about the accident. I must have gone through there before it happened because I didn’t see anything. I’m glad to hear that the injuries weren’t serious. I thought that T2 was a little dicey too, especially later on when there were spectators walking through there too, not realizing that racers were still coming through. I was surprised to see that layout, but I think J&A was trying to make an equitable racking situation by having everyone enter from the swim and bike on one end of the transition area and exit for the bike and run at the other so there was no advantage to racking in a particular area. I nice idea, but not well executed. This was my first time at SJIT and, all in all, I thought it was a great race.

Spot on, brother. Thanks for the post.

This kind of jackassery reminds me of the shirt I saw at Tri-America yesterday. . .it said “Its all about me” No kidding. . .jackass. We’ll keep that in mind when your turn comes and the automobile driver is thinking the same thing. . .

Eric,

Of course I wasn’t there and didn’t see what was going on, but you allude to the fact that this may be a RD problem and not a competitor problem.

Although I certainly may agree with you in some aspects, remember, the view is much different from the position of the competitors. Remember too that the “race” is still on. Also, please note I’m not suggesting reckless abandon. Quite to the contrary - I’m only suggesting that it looks a bit different in the heat of battle. Also, an experienced cyclist may be able to “slow down” and safely go by at 25mph, while others are dangerous the whole race at 15 mph, so if you were to mass DQ folks how would you know the difference?

Unfortunately, I have been in a lot of races where course marshals and police are signaling slow down and there was no reason for it at all. It’s kind of the old cry wolf deal. For example, I have been on courses that I have scouted in advance (BTW-cycling is my strength) and know how fast I can take downhills, or curves, or speed bumps, etc and yet have a marshal screaming at me to slow down. For me, there is absolutely no reason for it, and after all it is a race.

Lastly, your comment about the racer being OK “no thanks to many in attendence(sic)” (I’m not sure I know what that means) doesn’t make sense to me. If the ambulance and police were on the scene, what were those in attendance supposed to do? Were you expecting them to help or spectate, or are you just referring to slowing down?

Again, just trying to give you a little racer perspective. I really don’t think all those folks you saw were trying to do a bad thing - heck they may not have even figured it out until they were up the road. I have found over the years that most racers are respectful and courteous, even if at times ignorant and oblivious.

Hey, thanks for your efforts and for marshalling - we really do appreciate it! Best wishes,

David, you are referencing two different things. Being told to slow down for things that are constant. . .curves, bumps, etc. . .should, indeed, be taken relative to the racer’s abilities. Often the voluteers and police have no idea how fast folks can really handle their bikes, and are simply acting on advice that they caution racers about possible difficult areas. A certain curve on the California IM course at Camp Pendleton comes to mind. . . You and I may be fine at high speeds while others may need serious braking.

But being told to slow down at an emergency scene is quite different. You may have control of your bike at 25mph, but what are you going to do when the EMT steps into your way? The victim is FAR more important than your race at that point, no matter what is on the line. At 25mph you have scant seconds to decide how much room to give the situation, and your estimate, as you duly note, is inherently biased to keeping you on track. Well. . .again. . .YOU and your race take a huge back seat at that point. How in the hell do you know that the ambulance isn’t about to go screaming right into your path taking a head injury case to the hospital? What do you suppose is going to happen at that point? ANOTHER head injury, probably. All because you couldn’t be bothered. . .

You can tell when something is an emergency situation. . .give them a brake. Don’t be a jackass.

David,

I agree and disagree with you.

There is no excuse for not slowing down in the situation here. Especially since it sounds like this happened back in the pack. I could sort of understand if it were the first few real contenders, but not the MOP. What were they worried about, ending up in 175th place instead of 173rd. :slight_smile: In a situation like the one described here the first priority is the injured racer, if they have to block the course, oh well. It doesn’t matter how fast you think you can safely pass, it matters what the guys on scene are comfortable with.

Your second point is also one of my pet peeves. I was a Cat 3 (almost 2:)) in another life, and I feel pretty comfortable on my bike. If I’m comfortable going through a downhill corner at 35mph, I will ignore the marshals and do it. I feel like they’re there to give people a heads up about the situation, not direct traffic. If you are one of those who can barely stay on two wheels, you’d better slow down; if you know how to ride, just pay attention and do your thing.

Chris

Maybe it is time to issue some sort of warning flags or slowdown flags to race officials for situations like this. It could be something like they do in car racing. It seems to work pretty well there. Just a thought.

I don’t really disagree with you at all, except to say things look different at speed, and in hindsight, and I wouldn’t necessarily condemn all the competitors who went by. I remember once at IMH on the fast downhill after the turnaround there was a bad wreck, and then an aid station volunteer stepped out to see what was going on and got hit really hard…this was 20 yards in front of me. The whole group of us really didn’t know what was going on, what to do, etc. Sure we were cautious…should we have all stopped? Should we have crossed the center line to give more room? We did slow, I guess that is relative, but noone that I saw stopped other than those involved. I have looked back at that in hindsight many times. The point only being, again, is that things look different at speed and in hindsight.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Years ago, there was a fire in a little town through which the bike leg of our local triathlon went. Some riders actually rode across the fire hose stretched across the street! The town almost shut the race down after that. How stupid can these people be?

Eric,

Of course I wasn’t there and didn’t see what was going on, but you allude to the fact that this may be a RD problem and not a competitor problem.

Although I certainly may agree with you in some aspects, remember, the view is much different from the position of the competitors. Remember too that the “race” is still on. Also, please note I’m not suggesting reckless abandon. Quite to the contrary - I’m only suggesting that it looks a bit different in the heat of battle. Also, an experienced cyclist may be able to “slow down” and safely go by at 25mph, while others are dangerous the whole race at 15 mph, so if you were to mass DQ folks how would you know the difference?

Unfortunately, I have been in a lot of races where course marshals and police are signaling slow down and there was no reason for it at all. It’s kind of the old cry wolf deal. For example, I have been on courses that I have scouted in advance (BTW-cycling is my strength) and know how fast I can take downhills, or curves, or speed bumps, etc and yet have a marshal screaming at me to slow down. For me, there is absolutely no reason for it, and after all it is a race.

Lastly, your comment about the racer being OK “no thanks to many in attendence(sic)” (I’m not sure I know what that means) doesn’t make sense to me. If the ambulance and police were on the scene, what were those in attendance supposed to do? Were you expecting them to help or spectate, or are you just referring to slowing down?

Again, just trying to give you a little racer perspective. I really don’t think all those folks you saw were trying to do a bad thing - heck they may not have even figured it out until they were up the road. I have found over the years that most racers are respectful and courteous, even if at times ignorant and oblivious.

Hey, thanks for your efforts and for marshalling - we really do appreciate it! Best wishes,----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------David at the accident scene there was nothing the RD could have done better that would have changed what happened, a driver ignored the police manning the intersection’s directions . The thing is “on Course” racers need to follow the directions of course workers, Police, fire, or Race Officails at all times. we out of necesity shut the expressway down to 1 lane out of 3 for cars 1/2 half lane for racers and 1 1/2 lanes for the ambulance and medical workers. The was myself and 2 uniformed SJ Police officers in a line stretching 200 feet up the road from the scene yelling and waving at racers to slow it down. When police are telling youto shut it down, the marshal is telling you to shut it down,DO IT don’t argue, “one of the I’m in control” people blew through and hit a paramedic. The medics are dealing with a patient and are not looking at the race, they depend on you the racer paying attention to orders for their safety. and 10 mph was the max we could safely squeeze the hundreds of racers past the scene. the other thing people were discussing was the bike in run out crossing inside the parking lot at the transition area, that is an RD issue and was a sperate discussion from the bike car crash. as for a penalty, speeding through the accident scene ingoring course worker/ police instructions can be construed as indangerment and is, at the head referee’s discretion either a time penalty or a DQ. I hope that clears things up a bit

“I could sort of understand if it were the first few real contenders, but not the MOP.”

    • Exactly. I’m 50-54 (wave #11 yesterday, 44 minutes after the elites) and was sitting second or third at that point. So anyone in the earlier waves - like the dickhead that almost hit the fire truck - were totally out of contention. I think I was one of possibly three or four there who could have been racing for a spot, and I slowed down and got passed.

BOPers deserve respect for being there and doing their best but at a time like that, who needs to hurry up and get through? I like the idea (from another post) about giving flags. That way a volunteer or marshall could throw out the caution flag and you’d know there was a crash BEFORE you whipped around that corner and joined in…