I’ve have continental gatorskin tubulars on my race wheels right now (because i did not want to flat in my first IM) and was thinking about switching to lower rolling resistance tires (like the conti sprinters or vittoria or tufo but probably the conti’s). would it be worth it to make the change? does anyone know if my times would change any for my bike split? I’ve been averaging the same in sprint to half IM races on my race wheelset that I have on training rides with my training wheelset with conti ultra sports.
If you went with a non-Gatorskin model and glued them properly, yes, you would notice a decrease in rolling resistance.
I’m a fan of the Conti. Podium model (have used them for 3 years now) myself. But others have complained they puncture a little easier. I have had 3 flats over the years - one in a race.
Continental tires are garbage. With few exceptions they have extremely high rolling resistance. At race speeds, a Conti Sprinter will cost you nearly 10 watts over better tires.
Think about that. AG triathletes tend to average less than 200 watts. 10 watts is a lot to give up.
Just posted this today. No data on the Sprinter or Podium tubulars however.
Continental tires are garbage. With few exceptions they have extremely high rolling resistance. At race speeds, a Conti Sprinter will cost you nearly 10 watts over better tires.
Damn, you’d think all the pro cycling teams (and pro triathletes) would wake the F up then …
I’ve used only Conti tires since I started road racing. Never had any issues with them or their performance. And yes, if you race on an “economy” tire like the Sprinter, what else would you expect???
Damn, you’d think all the pro cycling teams (and pro triathletes) would wake the F up then
As Alan has indicated, some of these guys are giving up real time and places because of their equipment.
Remember though, these are the same rocket scientists who raise their arms 10 meters before the finish – and lose the race as a result.
As a rule-of-thumb, the ability to generate massive wattage varies inversely with the intellect to utilize it effectively. The guys who defy that rule (e.g. Armstrong) are typically the winners.
Okay, awesome for the pro’s but a lot of people on here seem to have a lower rolling resistance tire on their race wheelset and some people even change their tubes to latex in clinchers. To those people do you notice a difference (if so what type of difference) or is it really worth over $100 for new tubular tires?
Yes.
Just posted this today. No data on the Sprinter or Podium tubulars however.
http://biketechreview.com/...c.php?f=1&t=2593
I’m sorry but I didn’t see your work but how exactly did you come up with a difference in crr of .0006 equates to 8 watts?
fantastic. thanks. can you maybe explain just a little more, or is it just a placebo effect on everyone that makes them go faster.
So my 2 year old sprinters i still race on are not very good?
Hah, Well i wanted to replace them after 70.3 LS anyway because of dry rot. Never flatted a sprinter since i glued them on…
What tubbies do you recommend Jordan/Others?
I’m sorry but I didn’t see your work but how exactly did you come up with a difference in crr of .0006 equates to 8 watts?
For that speed and load plus adding ~ 25% for a good road (the tests are done on very smooth rollers) that’s how it calc’s out (Rolling Resistance Power = Speed X Load X Crr). You can compare power lost to rolling resistance by looking at the list on BTR - scroll down the home page for the link on the left.
I’m sorry but I didn’t see your work but how exactly did you come up with a difference in crr of .0006 equates to 8 watts?
For that speed and load plus adding ~ 25% for a good road (the tests are done on very smooth rollers) that’s how it calc’s out (Rolling Resistance Power = Speed X Load X Crr). You can compare power lost to rolling resistance by looking at the list on BTR - scroll down the home page for the link on the left.
The formula I’m familiar with is P=MgCrrV
So for a 90kg rider at 30kph the conti would require 24w and the 23mm vittorio would require 18w a difference of 6w the vittorio CS 21mm the difference would be 4.3w
The formula I’m familiar with is P=MgCrrV
So for a 90kg rider at 30kph the conti would require 24w and the 23mm vittorio would require 18w a difference of 6w the vittorio CS 21mm the difference would be 4.3w
Sounds about right. I used 40 kph and then added ~ 25% for a real road.
fantastic. thanks. can you maybe explain just a little more, or is it just a placebo effect on everyone that makes them go faster.
You didn’t ask, “Why?”. You simply said “is it worth it…” And I said “yes,” because it is. I don’t really see that it needed an explanation, as jens and AFM both gave thorough explanations on this thread as to what you would/could expect to get in benefits. Basically, you asked, is it worth it to get new tires to get 5% more power for “free” (or ~$100). There’s no placebo effect; the tires just roll faster. Given that the explanation as to WHY had already been given, I figured that you were simply asking for people to chime in if they had experienced that which had already been explained, hence my monosyllabic reply. The explanation you are asking me for has already been provided, and had been provided before you posed your question… I was (and am) simply echoing that yes, I’ve experienced what Alan and jens are describing. As to whether or not ~5% more watts is worth $X? That’s a personal question, and always will be.
never really saw crr differences in tires expressed that way.
So the difference between say a Bontrager and a Conti Competition is like 3% @ 300 watts. While a 3% increase in power doesn’t automatically mean you go 3% faster, I don’t think you’d find anybody capable of riding 300 watts for a given distance be satisfied with a 290 watt ride.
hmmmmmmmm. guess I need to go shopping and relagate the conti’s to spares.
Here is another link with clincher and tubular tires - the difference in rolling resistance between conti and vittoria tubulars is much smaller in this article, and there other things to consider, such as puncture resistance…notice that generally (with obvious exceptions) the low rolling resistance clinchers/tubulars have low puncture resistance. There are other factors too like tire grip - especially handling in wet conditions.
To follow-up with what sinkorswim was saying, my anecdotal experience has been that there is a significant difference in puncture resistance between some of the “fast” tires and some of the “slow” tires. I’ve tried those Vittoria’s that have the low crr’s but can’t seem to get more than 100 miles out of them before they puncture (YMMV). The only tubular with latex tubes that I have had luck with is the Vredestein Fortezza Pro and it reportedly has a high crr (probably due to the hard anti-puncture layer under the tread).
I have found that changing flats on the side of the road does nothing to help my TT times so I mostly roll on Conti Competitions these days.
Here is another link with clincher and tubular tires - the difference in rolling resistance between conti and vittoria tubulars is much smaller in this article, and there other things to consider, such as puncture resistance…notice that generally (with obvious exceptions) the low rolling resistance clinchers/tubulars have low puncture resistance. There are other factors too like tire grip - especially handling in wet conditions.
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html
This testing was conducted at Continental’s facility I believe, and has their tires doing a good bit better than the only independant testing that exists AFAIK (AFM’s). They do well in the puncture resistance category, but was that tested or just someones opinion after examining the design?
I went from Continental GP4000S tubulars (slow tires) on Blackwell 100 wheels (slow wheels) to Bonty RXL pro clinchers (23mm) latex tubes and Hed C2 rimmed race wheels and I can easily quantify the difference with full seasons of power data. My new set up easily saves me 20 watts and probably closer to 30 in real world conditions.
I ran a single Vittoria EVO KSs almost 2 years of racing - I bought them used here on ST.
Mine survived nearly 700 miles (in my hands) before they both hit the grave yard at the Triple T this year. 2 Ironmans, 4 halfs, several shorter races, 1 Triple T, and a partial Triple T, a 20k TT + some training shake down rides.
That said - I did notice a surprising tendancy for them to pick up debris during races that I would sit and pick out afterwards.