Consistent volume vs. cutback weeks

 From the plans I have seen for swimming and cycling (as single sports) and what I have read, the periodization doesn't necessarily include significant, sudden, and periodic cut backs until the taper period. Each phase smoothly transition into one another in terms of type of work and volume but they don't impose periodic recovery weeks. (Notable exceptions: recovery week following a training camp or B-competition, taper.) 

On the other hand, as some pointed out, most every running training plans do incorporate periodic recovery weeks. My educated guess is that: 1/ running provokes a lot more muscle/joint/tendon damage (the recovery weeks are here for healing)

True - cycling and swimming don’t have much in the way of eccentric contractions; concentric contractions do not cause the muscle microtrauma that eccentric do.

Also, running is more “chaotic” for lack of better word than cycling or swimming: there will be more variation in one’s stride going uphill, downhill, and turning on twisting course as well as running on unstable/uneven terrain. Just more opportunities for mild or mini injuries that don’t really matter day to day but can add up and derail your training.

For argument’s sake I might say that you’ve got 4 strokes :wink:

I’m not sure “chaotic” is a reason for cutback weeks. But you’re thinking aloud too.

Where is desert dude, or JoB, or trukweaz, or Paulo, or Jorge M, or someone else who could answer this rather than us just pondering…

Swimming - Yeah. There are four strokes but the medium doesn’t change and, for a given stroke, you always do the same relatively safe movement. It might get iffy in a busy lane but not much past that. (I won’t mention the level of effort because it holds true for SBR alike.)

Road Cycling - Very repetitive movement as well - whether you “pedal in circles” or stomp. Again, it might be a bit more stressful if the surface your are riding on is rough and the occasional pot hole that you can’t avoid. But when you swerve or change direction, you do it by balancing your body on the bike, not changing your leg position or your muscle action.

Running - Unless you are on the track or a treadmill, you have to sidestep rocks or go up/down the sidewalk or whatever and unlike cycling it has direct repercussion on your muscles/joints (you can’t hit the brakes when you have to stop fast or swerve to avoid a pothole). When you turn, you don’t just lean like you would do on a bike, you have to fight the centrifugal force*, etc. with muscle action and there will be more strain on your joints and tendons. (Very obvious while running in the snow/on ice.) Also, your ankle is always working to keep you stable on uneven ground (not so when you are clipped in on your bike). I guess that’s what I mean by more chaotic movement.

I am struggling to explain why but the bottom line is that there is a lot more wear and tear while running. Elite swimmers and cyclists can log 30+ hour weeks and most of the training injuries are overuse injuries. (Crashes don’t count.). Elite long distance runners won’t go much above 120 miles and it doesn’t take them much more than 12-13 hours to cover that ground and there are a lot more opportunities for tearing muscles or joints or even stress fractures. Can I hypothesize that running is 2.5 more stressful than swimming or cycling from those numbers? I don’t know. But is illustrate the point, doesn’t it?

Now, going back to Ironman training. A balanced peak week for somebody with Kona ambitions would be something along the lines of swimming: 3-4 hours, cycling: 10-11 hours, and running: 5-6 hours. (In any case, this is in the range described by the OP.) This five-to-six-hour running regimen is more stressful, in my mind at least, than the swimming and cycling combined.

In any case, my readings, backed by real life experience, tell me that swimming and cycling don’t necessarily require recovery periods (week or whatever) while running might warrant it on a regular basis (whether planned in advance or ad hoc).

*Centrifugal force is not a real force… but you see what I mean.

Where is desert dude, or JoB, or trukweaz, or Paulo, or Jorge M, or someone else who could answer this rather than us just pondering…

Or Ken Lehner - not stalking you, dude. :wink: - or Fleck ?

See post 14 in this thread.

I am struggling to explain why but the bottom line is that there is a lot more wear and tear while running. Elite swimmers and cyclists can log 30+ hour weeks and most of the training injuries are overuse injuries. (Crashes don’t count.). Elite long distance runners won’t go much above 120 miles and it doesn’t take them much more than 12-13 hours to cover that ground and there are a lot more opportunities for tearing muscles or joints or even stress fractures. Can I hypothesize that running is 2.5 more stressful than swimming or cycling from those numbers? I don’t know. But is illustrate the point, doesn’t it?

One reason. Impact.

“There is no sound physiological evidence to support 3 weeks on 1 week off.”

Okay. But is there no physiological evidence to support 4 weeks on 1 week off, or 5 weeks on 1 week off, etc. or, more generally, a certain period off when required.

My take is that, for running, a recovery period does an awful lot of good when needed. When is “when needed” is the problem. I know when from experience (and I can tell to some extent for people I train with). Now, for somebody with limited experience using an off-the-shelf plan like the OP, it might be more difficult to figure out… hence the starting point at a given ratio and adapt from there.

Like JoeO, I have seen countless people bury themselves while training for running road races. (Not so much in swimming, cycling.)

For running, typically that person who buries them self was an idiot and increased volume AND intensity at the same time.

There is no given ratio for everyone if that is what you are looking for.

You always have to monitor intensity and volume yielding one or the other when the demands of season and the response of the athlete call for it.

If you want to toss darts in the dark and be satisfied with an occasional race where you go good AND not understand why, (which makes repeating a good performance more luck then due to your training) then following an arbitrary 3/1, 4/1 whatever/1 schedule is a great thing to do.

Thank you.

There is no given ratio for everyone if that is what you are looking for.

Agreed.

You always have to monitor intensity and volume yielding one or the other when the demands of season and the response of the athlete call for it.

I was trying to provide food for thoughts and generally help the OP, but, that, I would be more curious about.

I usually peak about right (although, sometimes a bit early for swimming, and a bit late for cycling). I mostly use my track workouts to plot progress. Any other avenues to to gauge “the response”?

Cheers,
Alex

I’ve just been into multisport for three years, and must follow a ‘week on/week off’ schedule as I have ‘weekabout’ joint custody.
In my ‘off week’, I ride the trainer in early morning hours, and (try to) focus on stretching/strength, etc when possible. These weeks typically see 6 hrs, 8 max.

In the ‘on week’, I try to maintain 12-15 (sometimes more) hours, with some intensity workouts.
Usually 2/day workouts 2 or 3 days a a week. Single workout days are either high volume or high intensity.

What I have found is that my running suffers from the lack of consistency, pacing in particular.
In cycling, mostly my climbing doesn’t improve as rapidly as the cyclists I train with on a regular basis.

My endurance does not suffer much at all, but the volume you’re trying to maintain for a full iron is higher than what I typically do even in the longest days of the year.

Not sure if that helps or not, and I’m still struggling with how to squeeze more into less as many other do the same. Good luck.

Swimming - Yeah. There are four strokes but the medium doesn’t change and, for a given stroke, you always do the same relatively safe movement. It might get iffy in a busy lane but not much past that. (I won’t mention the level of effort because it holds true for SBR alike.)

You missed my wink face!

anyway I see desert dude answered, happy thing.

There is no given ratio for everyone if that is what you are looking for.

I’m into the 4 hr / 20 hr ratio as of late. Four hours on 20 hours off wake up again REPEAT!

  You missed my wink face! 

I saw it. Sorry, I was waxing rhetorical… and making the argument to myself as well. :wink: