I need help!
I have been using Computrainer for about 1 month and my spinscan numbers suck… they are around 55-60. What are some drills to improve my pedeling effeciency?
My avg. watts are around 200 for a 56 mile ride…how do you produce more power without hurting your knees?
Please help!
Man, I may be a wimp on the computrainer, but an average of 200 watts ain’t that bad for a half IM on that machine! But I gotta tell ya, I had a good friend who insisted on going hard on for 56 miles on my computrainer last year getting ready for IM CDA (I had the course loaded) and he really injured himself (sciatica). That computrainer is a great training tool, but it can be a little addictive and with no built-in “rests” from traffic, stop signs, etc, and having to pedal even “downhill” it can be grueling and lead to over-use injury.
Anyway, for drills, one-legged drills are good to help form. I also think of “scraping mud” off my cleats at the bottom of the stroke and then immediately trying to drive my knees into the handlebars. I think the most improvement to my pedal stroke has been mountain biking. Nothing like spinning up a loose singletrack on a mountain bike to get your stroke really even.
If you are getting sore knees, that’s a whole 'nother thread. I’d first look at saddle height, then cleat placement. A good fitter at a bike shop should be able to help. Are your spin scan numbers fairly even? Power output the same on both legs? My wife had a very uneven spin scan pattern which lead to me discovering that one cleat was forward of the other – problem fixed!
place a short chair, stool, milk crate on either side of the trainer. Put one foot on the crate, pedal w/ the other for 30 seconds. A switch feet. Do this after warmup. If it is too easy do it 2 minutes. Still too easy, change to an easier gear and try spinning w/ one foot, or try a harder gear and try pushing that. If you are really good you can go uphill w/ one leg. Now you can control some of the spinscan variation. Hurt my leg last summer-not cycling but while resting/hanging out and had to ride 10miles home w/ one leg. So the skill does have application.
More watts: the simplest ans is to do a shorter ride and practice at higher watts. Get stronger. Link shorter efforts at higher watts until they can be added to become the longer higher power ride you desire. Long ans: welcome to life. Actually. Well you could look at the wattage forums list of reading material. Then ask this question again. I think it is an iterative process.
Thanks for the computrainer tips. my spinscan numbers are pretty even.
my knees never hurt when i ride outside but only when I use computertrainer…i think its because i am kind of in the same position with no type of rest.
200 watts is pretty good.
I’m glad you started this thread. I’ve been wanting to ask how CT results transfer to the real world. After reading Julian’s post about cadence and gearing this morning, I’m wondering how, for example, a 185 watt ride of the Lake Placid course translates to the actual course. I realize that I’m basically asking people to interpolate hundreds of variables, but I ask because assuming that the CT provides the most perfect conditions possible, and based on Julian’s estimates, I would expect that 185 watt, 53 mile ride to be around 2:40-2:45, at most. Yet I rode it a couple of weeks ago and did ~3:01:00.
Can this be attributed to improper calibration, incorrect user setup, or some other thing, or am I just doomed to cycliing mediocrity?
On a different note, I finally found a seat position that is less painful and more efficient(high 60’s, but it’s still an improvement) than what I had been using. Add another entry to the “flies in the face of Tri-conventional wisdom”. I stopped raising my seat and moving it forward, set it back to its orignial position, then moved it down about half an inch. Perfect.
**jmorrissey… I do allot of CT riding, courses that are the same ones I ride duriong the race season. www.michiganoutalws.com I have found that I ride 3-5 mph faster, depending on length of course, outside versus the CT. Go to my site, we did a time trial on a local course, i averaged 22+ on the Ct, last year in August i averaged just a hair over 25 mph. **
I believe Ken meant the link to be http://www.michiganoutlaws.com/
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funny. yep. thanks HID
You didn’t mention how much riding you had been doing, but it is WAY early in the season to be pressing hard for 56 miles, much less on a CompuTrainer. CT’s are excellent tools for doing intervals (rather than long TT efforts), and if you can keep track of data like times, average wattage per effort, etc. you can track your improvement over time. I would also recommend that you hold off on heavy intensity work until late March/early April as a general rule (but again, you didn’t mention how much riding you were currently doing, so you might be ready for the harder efforts a bit earlier).
A tip for driving up your SpinScan numbers: envision your cleats on conveyor belts, pushing both forward and back, rounding out the ends on either side. Almost like sliding your feet back/forth – give it a try and I think you’ll see what I’m getting at.
Also try isolated leg training (ILT), alternating pulling out one foot and hanging it over the stand by the rear wheel. I alternate 25-30 seconds for each leg, about 5-8 repeats at the end of a 15-20 minute warmup period.
Hope that helps-
-Mike Llerandi (40,000 CT miles and counting…)
I would expect that 185 watt, 53 mile ride to be around 2:40-2:45, at most. Yet I rode it a couple of weeks ago and did ~3:01:00.
I am reasonably confident that I was in about 175-watt shape at the 2002 Cal Half, and rode 2:35 on that flat course. I didn’t have a powermeter then, so I’m not really certain. On the CT, I was holding about 175 watts at moderate efforts, so I’m guessing I did 175 in the race.
As others have noted, the Computrainer is notoriously harder than roads. That’s a good thing, as it is nice to have a pleasant surprise in the first race of the season. My CT reads 10 watts higher than the Powertap; most people that actually check these things consider the Powertap the most accurate of the bunch.
I agree with others that the best use of the Computrainer is rides of an hour or less as either various types of intervals or a constant-power tempo ride. My favorites are “cruise intervals” of 8 to 20 minutes in length (depending on the point in the training year) at LT effort (ie, nearly all-out). Total work time 30-40 minutes, with no more than 2 minutes rest between intervals.
I also do a weekly 60-minute constant-power ride at a little above goal 1/2 IM power, using the ergometer mode – the handlebar unit only. After 5 minutes to warm up me and the unit, I set it on 210 watts and just ride for 60 minutes. I hope to set it on 240 watts by April. If not, the World’s Toughest Half is going to be a longer day than I’m hoping for.
As for Spinscan – it’s interesting, but just ride. Put out the watts and your pedaling “efficiency” will take care of itself. I searched far and wide, and found no verifiable evidence that high spinscan numbers mean anything. There is even considerable doubt among physiologists as to whether there is even such a thing as “pedaling efficiency” to a degree that makes any difference to cycling performance (Frank Day excepted, but he’s not an experimentalist).
For you people crazy enough to think one-legged pedalling is a beneficial way to pedal…why not do it all the time…with both legs. Someone already invented a way to do this, it’s called Powercranks. BTW, your knee pain may disappear if you pedal this way…mine did.
Jokes on you. That IS the point. I do. w/o special cranks, just practice… cheaper too.
About speed on the CT, it doesn’t calculate wind resistance. Think about riding outside on your tri bike at 200 watts sitting upright into the wind. Now get into the aero position and maintain 200 watts, speed increases 2-3 mph. The same experiment on the CT obviously doesn’t work.
Here are some posts from the training bible forum of people talking about CT workouts, the first set is great, I do it once or twice a week in the early season:
Here is a workout I use with my athletes. It is a modification of Joe’s S1a workout -
Warm up 15 mins. Then pedal 30 seconds left leg only, 30 seconds right leg only
(opposite leg resting on a chair), then increase rpm by 5 and spin for 1 min with both
legs. Above equals one set. Do 7 - 10 sets with 2 - 3 minute recovery between each set.
Work to eliminate the dead spot in your pedal stroke. Lynda.
–Think about adding spin-ups to each set
For example, do a 10-mile TT for a test. Start steady, and ride a flat course on the trainer
at a solid tempo. Slowly ratchet up to the max pace you can hold and finish strong. That sets
your “current pace.” Let’s say you can do 19 mph (about where I started). Add about 15%, say
22 mph as goal pace. Joel suggests a simple progression to follow from there: ride at 22 mph
until you get about 4 bpm over your anaerobic threshold. Slow it down to 10-12 mph or so until
you recover to 25 bpm below threshold and go again. You will be able to work less long, and
take longer to recover as the session progresses. When it takes as long to recover as it does
to hit threshold plus 4, you’re done for the day. Do this twice a week on good rest, and you
will see your work intervals get longer and longer.
I’m currently in a progression of strength work. 3 minutes at 225 watts at 70 rpm;
rest interval 4 minutes with 6-8 repeats. After doing that twice a week for 4 weeks,
I’ll move on to 2 minutes at 250-275 watts at 45 rpm for 4 weeks. Then I’ll return to the
“enhanced aerobic” workouts cited above to transfer that strength to speed (I hope).
This is straight out of Friel’s cycling book.
danb wrote: Jokes on you. That IS the point. I do. w/o special cranks, just practice… cheaper too.
Well, if you have the time, you can do what PC’s do with one-legged drills. It just takes at least twice as long. While you are doing one leg and the other one is resting, on PC’s you are doing both legs ALL the time. My time is more valuable than the cost of PCs. Plus, I don’t have to be bored on a trainer…I ride PC’s just like regular cranks all over the countryside.
To each his own! Crank on!
I’m wondering how, for example, a 185 watt ride of the Lake Placid course translates to the actual course. I realize that I’m basically asking people to interpolate hundreds of variables, but I ask because assuming that the CT provides the most perfect conditions possible, and based on Julian’s estimates, I would expect that 185 watt, 53 mile ride to be around 2:40-2:45, at most. Yet I rode it a couple of weeks ago and did ~3:01:00. Last summer I did Lake Placid and rode the CT course in preparation - I never finished the program. The longest I rode was 4:45/5hrs and if I recall correctly my total miles were in the 80’s. !! It led me to the same questions you’ve raised. I kept telling myself the actual course COULDN’T be as hard as the CT. LP was a challenge and I may have made the rookie mistake of taking the first loop to fast. Add in a steady,stiff uphill wind and some rain and a couple cramps along the way and I still turned in a better spilt than the CT. Always room for improvement…