What was that triathlete’s split? 4 hours?
How many IM has he done before?
Nevermind. I don’t need an answer.
Again, I think you’d be better off not using such outrageous claims. CEP are very good compression socks.
FWIW…
Btw, we (my sig) recently tested RACESOX Compression socks. If you’re interested in a test, send us a pair. askmzungo@gmail.com
By no means is CEP the ONLY compression product that can provide benefit. To what extent the benefit is needs to be clearly proven. Anything tight on your muscles can help at a superficial level (surface) but there’s better products out there where you can see a bigger relief. Again, just be careful wearing things that go by shoe size. In the link I posted from Dr. Chang (www.airhealth.org/athletes) it says “Don’t confuse support stockings with support stockings.” A lot of products are just support and may be tighter in the calf which could be counter productive. It’s great that you’ve been wearing compression for a while. Here’s some brands that have descent compression but make sure you go with one that measures ankle and calf to ensure it’s “graduated”.These are for venous return and great for recovery. Not really designed for performance but good for post race and travel.
Juzo
medi
Sigvaris
Jobst
Outrageous to you maybe but it’s proven medically and in the field with athletes.
So, you’ll send a pair for a test?
Where are your socks made? Where is the material that you use to make them made?
Thanks
Germany is where CEP is made but our medical socks are made in the USA and Germany. The material comes from different sources around the world but it’s all synthetic material. We also have silver ions in our socks and use an “uncoated” spandex. It makes them easier to apply, machine washable and dry (low heat). You should get about 200 wears before the compression will start to decrease. With CEP socks you can get them wet when running in heat and they give a cooling effect. That’s why in Kona the socks are soaked. (Besides them being that way simply from sweat and dumping water)
You have some already I thought? If you want to test them pick up a pair and keep the receipt for the 30 day return policy.
Good luck
What’s the link to that JoS study? The abstract says nothing about graduated compression, optimal compression, distinction about where the socks are manufactured, nor O2 movement.
Regarding DVT, one study from 2006 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2727767/ pointed out that DVT was usually asymptomatic, so merely mentioned compression stockings probably wouldn’t cause harm, though that wasn’t studied.
A 2009 study published in The Lancet and European Stroke Conference in Stockholm showed graduated compression stockings do not prevent blood clots in stroke patients. Another Lancet study by Rodney Hughes et al found compression stockings don’t prevent DVT during air travel.
Some studies measure performance benefits using compression socks, but no causation has been determined, and there seem to be an equal number of studies showing no compression sock performance gains in trained athletes. It’s unclear if compression socks help during recovery, but wearing them may do no harm, and may make some people feel pretty, oh so pretty.
When you wear your pantyhose, sing the chorus, and it goes…
I have read the study the CEP is quoting, and yes, the marathon times were 4 hours in which the participants saw 5% or 12 minute time improvements. You and I may both be faster than that, but I know from being at many races that there are a TON of athletes right around that time or slower.
I would assume that as you go faster you would see less of a time benefit. I would also have to assume that runners who are at closer to their aerobic limit, let’s say a sub 3 hour runner, would see less of a benefit than a runner who is more limited by muscle fatigue, like a 4 hour marathoner.
Again, just my assumptions from my studies of compression, and I am a bike rep, not a doctor. Almost all of my info comes from the internet, and companies like CEP and Zoot, so take that as you will.
Here’s the link to the published study from Dr. Kemmler. You can also see the study that measured an increase in arterial flow in the calf while wearing CEP. (40% more during activity/ 30% more at rest) More 02 = more power, on our website:cepcompression.com
Other Study you mentioned:
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2727767/) This study doesn’t clarify a lot of things but it says compression stockings helped with DVT prevention. Any GOOD physician in the USA who treats vascular insufficiency and/or DVT’s will recommend at least a 15-20mmHg Graduated compression stocking. Most will do 20-30mmHg. Some call them TED HOSE by default if they don’t know any better. TED hose are for non ambulatory (bed stricken) patients. If you’re walking and active you need graduated compression and not just “support hose” Did you see the link to Dr. Chang’s web article. This is just one that we found but we have hundreds of docs across the USA who Rx medical compression stockings for DVT and other indications. They’re now starting to do so with CEP for athlete’s with DVT, Shin Splints, Cramps, ankle issues etc. People just like the way CEP feels more because it has lower compression on the calf than most 20-30mmHg medical socks and athletes don’t want to wear something that isn’t sporty.
I read a study that SKINS has that really didn’t show any improvement. Not sure why they even published this? (http://www.jssm.org/vol5/n1/12/v5n1-12pdf.pdf - Skins Study) Again, it really depends on the products, the athlete, how the garment fits them, what their medical history is, how they endure, their diet etc, etc. No study is bullet proof and that’s why athlete feedback is really the key when it comes to compression. I would test products yourself and go with the one that you feel comfortable with. 9 x’s out of 10 your body will tell you the truth. If you don’t like the way it feels and/or notice something different in a bad way . . . Don’t wear it.
We make a Men’s leotard in compression for serious indications like Lymphedema… I can get you a pair of those if you’d like 
Thanks for the input.
Thanks for the links! The SoC study should be dismissed:
http://docs.google.com/...lmZjY0MDM3&hl=en
The sample size of 21 is too small considering the non-conclusive results, and non-blind design. An error or contamination regarding one person could have produced the published results. It also only tested compression, not graduated compression, nor compression amount.
The other study you point to:
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2727767/)
Identified clots as asymptomatic, so there’s no real problem that compression socks could possibly correct.
A 20-30mmHg compression amount suggestions for bed-stricken patients seems irrelevant to a trained athlete’s situation. Regardless, the 2009 study published in The Lancet and European Stroke Conference in Stockholm:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)60941-7/abstract
showed graduated compression stockings do not prevent blood clots in stroke patients.
The Lancet study by Rodney Hughes et al found compression stockings don’t prevent DVT during air travel. Fear sells, but there’s mounting evidence that compression doesn’t solve a problem that doesn’t exist because the tiny travel blood clots are asymptomatic anyway and dissolve on their own.
The 2006 Skins study you link may not have shown recovery improvement, but good scientific methodology doesn’t bury a study just because it doesn’t sell product. Unfortunately, that study had a sample of 11 people, so it seems weak.
Few people invoke money-back guarantees, even when a product is useless or harmful. Despite some of the wacky gear in the Retro TT stuff thread, our time and lives are more valuable than committing to random trial and error. You write “athlete feedback is really key”? No! Data is key! Evidence that compression aids performance or recovery is the only thing that should sell even one compression sock.
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? 2XU Calf Sleeves ARE completely graduated from top to bottom.
You write “athlete feedback is really key”? No! Data is key! Evidence that compression aids performance or recovery is the only thing that should sell even one compression sock.
We have a 4 miler here in Central Park. I ran it five times now. Four times between 21:02 and 21:12. Once I ran 22:30. That one time, it was the fourth run, I wore my CEPs. If you doubt, I have pics of every race.
Thank you DamonHenry. Your very well articulated and intelligent response is why I come to ST.
Why doesn’t CEP follow a 6 hour marathoner instead of a 4 hour marathoner and just claim that it takes 10-15% off of a marathon time instead of 5%? It seems to me that the slower that your time is at the marathon distance, the more noise there are. In other words, many things can happen to show that your time improved when your finishing time is at the slower end. To simply say that that one time a person wore compression clothing, the time improved by 12 minutes and thus compression clothing was solely responsible for that is a bit shaky in my opinion.
I’ve had my marathon time improve by 10 minutes within the same season but have never contributed that to anything but my training and environments (i…e., weather, terrain, etc) for my improvements. I could say that the time that I improved by 10 minutes was due the fact that the two races had different gels and sports drink brands on the course but that’s not really scientific is it ? Can I now say that taking Gatorade instead of Powerade was solely responsible for my improvements ?
I don’t doubt that compression clothing may work but would like to see some real data with a large sample size to back it up.
I just ordered some CEP socks off one of the employee sites through our store. Pretty stoked to try them out since i’ve never worn compression socks. I got the full sock and the sleeve.
We had meeting yesterday with one of the Directors of Product at ZOOT and discussed their compression line. They make no claims as to the active performance benefits of compression but do believe in the recovery benefits, as do I.
Thanks for the links! The SoC study should be dismissed:
http://docs.google.com/...lmZjY0MDM3&hl=en
The sample size of 21 is too small considering the non-conclusive results, and non-blind design. An error or contamination regarding one person could have produced the published results. It also only tested compression, not graduated compression, nor compression amount.
The other study you point to:
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2727767/)
Identified clots as asymptomatic, so there’s no real problem that compression socks could possibly correct.
Asymptomatic means “producing or showing no symptoms”. This doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem. This study and another done at the Lancet show similar results. (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B0Z9AwNvDjXJZGRhNzMyZWEtNDJhYi00NzcyLWE3OTQtNGVkMjcxZjM1OWI1&hl=en) This study used our mediven Travel sock and has similar results of the above study. It was also done at Lancet which you mentioned. Of course these are for a test group older than what we’re discussing and they’re also not endurance athletes. 83% of all DVT’s in the USA from Travel are endurance/marathon athletes. . . that’s a staggering number. The reason is athletes have a slower resting heart rate and when sitting the blood can pool in the veins and clot. They may show no symptoms and can discover later they have a DVT but that’s why it’s so important to recognize there IS / can be a problem and that GRADUATED compression socks are widely used and proven to reduce the risks. We’re not saying only CEP will help but we’re saying that a lot of products in endurance sports aren’t graduated. We have the data to prove some products are opposite compression and tighter in the calf. Athletes would be better off buying a 15-20, 20-30 medical stocking that measures ankle and calf. Of course no one wants to wear something their Grandpa might have on… check out our medical stockings on this site for more info on medi medical stockings. (http://www.foryourlegs.com/Mediven-15-20mmHg-Travel-Socks-for-Men-Women-p-16818.html)
A 20-30mmHg compression amount suggestions for bed-stricken patients seems irrelevant to a trained athlete’s situation. Regardless, the 2009 study published in The Lancet and European Stroke Conference in Stockholm:
http://www.thelancet.com/...9)60941-7/abstract
showed graduated compression stockings do not prevent blood clots in stroke patients.
I don’t think this study is relevant given that it’s for stroke patients. There’s many symptoms here that can effect the use of stockings. It’s similar to not Rx 40-50 mmHg compression for someone with CHF (Congestive Heart Failure) or arterial disease or putting a Lymphedema patient in support hose with minimal compression. There’s certain problems that need to be addressed in different ways. I think we’re discussing ambulatory patients during travel here… not bed ridden stroke patients. There’s too many factors that can pollute the data.
The Lancet study by Rodney Hughes et al found compression stockings don’t prevent DVT during air travel. Fear sells, but there’s mounting evidence that compression doesn’t solve a problem that doesn’t exist because the tiny travel blood clots are asymptomatic anyway and dissolve on their own.
******The 2006 Skins study you link may not have shown recovery improvement, but good scientific methodology doesn’t bury a study just because it doesn’t sell product. Unfortunately, that study had a sample of 11 people, so it seems weak.
Few people invoke money-back guarantees, even when a product is useless or harmful. Despite some of the wacky gear in the Retro TT stuff thread, our time and lives are more valuable than committing to random trial and error. You write “athlete feedback is really key”? No! Data is key! Evidence that compression aids performance or recovery is the only thing that should sell even one compression sock.
We agree that a study and evidence of effectiveness should sell a product. That’s why we had a study done to test our Running socks. We wanted to know if they could improve performance. You do however need feedback from real athletes and not just PAID athletes or data from a PAID doctors. That’s all we are saying. We don’t discount feedback or studies; you need both. The difference is we have a study that’s published and accepted by a medical journal. This says a lot about a product… it isn’t saying everyone is going to have a 10 minute decrease in their marathon time but it is saying you will experience a benefit. Some athletes will PR their run by 5min, 7min 10min one athlete was 35min. Each person is different and we understand that.
We want athletes to know ALL the benefits to CEP. There’s too many products out there making the same claims but yet they have 0 data to back it up. They’re just selling product because “compression” is selling… they’re marketing is driving the sales not the word of mouth. CEP is the number one sock in Kona and has been since 2007. Why would these guys wear CEP during the World Championships if they didn’t feel a benefit? Do you think they’d wasted a minute putting them on if they didn’t think they’d help? Andy Potts starting wearing CEP for recovery but then started training with our socks. He noticed and felt better in CEP so he wears them in the FULL IM’s now. Dave Scott wears CEP because he had a DVT (didn’t know it until it was there: asymptomatic) and the doc told him to pick up compression. He was wearing medical compression already but tried CEP and loved our socks. That’s why he’s now one of our athletes. These guys believe in our products. Not because they have too but because they want to.
We guarantee the product because it’s the RIGHT thing to do. We’ve both invested time writing these repsonses so how would buying compression be a waste of time if one wanted to try it? I think it solidifies the product quality of a brand when it’s guaranteed. I know if I spent $60 on a pair of socks and didn’t like them I’d be upset if they weren’t guaranteed.
To CEP:
Thank you for the insight you have provided about your product. I currently have some 2XU recovery compression socks that I use, but think I am going to check out your product the next time I buy more compression. So at least you have gotten yourself one sale from all the hecklers.
Here is a question?
Why don’t you all make the socks in more colors? Mostly colors that would go with mens dress clothing, it seems everyone sells black, but nobody sells a sock in Navy Blue and Brown or Tan, maybe even a green or olive type color. I actually have my 2XU socks on right now at the office. I would think a lot of triathletes are professionals and that after long weekend of training it would be nice to have socks from you all that would match more to mens professional dress.
I could be wrong but I would not think dying the socks these colors would be to big of an issue since the technology has already been developed. I also think some decent advertising to the consumer that “Hey not only should you wear our product after you train or while you train, but you should wear it to work to help speed up your recovery” could help boost sales.
Just an idea, but if you use I would like 50% of the profits 
Thanks!
CEP
I am shopping for compression socks for the long trip back from an event by plane or car. My feet swell quite a bit and sticking them in a bucket of ice is not usually an option. What would you recommend.
Responding to E-H20’s question – recommended compression to prevent swelling. I’ve used Futuro brand compression socks (I think it they are sold as “restoring” dress socks; they come in typical dark dress sock colors and are marked at “firm” compression, 20-30 mm/hg). They are socks, and cover the whole foot and run all the way up and over the calf to just below the knee. They sell for about $15 a pair and really last a long time (I’ve had mine for nearly 3 years).
Whatever the merits of compression for recovery, performance, etc. (I have no opinion either way) for someone with vascular damage and swelling problems, these socks are a life saver. I spent two years at job working on my feet every day, all day. For the first six months, my ankles would swell by at least half. It felt like I was standing on wooden posts, and riding after work was always kind of horrible as a result. Once I discovered the Futuro socks, however, the difference was night and day. No swelling at all, no more wooden feeling in my legs, much less fatigue at the end of a day of standing. I also use them to prevent swelling when traveling (especially after a race), so for me, Futuro would be the best bet.