So, I’m wondering how my current ride stacks up to the most aero rides out there (P5, SHIV, Speed Concept, etc.) - what sort of time/watts am I loosing over the IM distance?
My bike is a 2009 Blue Triad w/Red and HED race wheel setup. I have both a JET 6 and 9 front and a rear 9 w/a cover and powertap.
(
I run a bottle on the aero bars and one on the downtube. I’ll be replacing the saddle with a Dash saddle shortly. I’m thinking of taking off the Garmin cadence sensor, as that probably doesn’t help aero #'s at all. How much would I save adding a TriRig front brake over the Red one?
I rode a 2:18 on 276 watts at the 70.3 WC - top guys in my AG were in the 2:12-2:14 range, but probably putting out more watts.
The only upgrades that could possibly help you are the TriRig Omega brakes, replace your magnetic sensors with Garmins new acceleratomer sensors, and change your BTA setup to the XLAB Torpedo instead of a standard waterbottle. If I remember correctly, the Omega saves 2 Watts.
And the rider saves another xxwatts…
I love These super-bikes, and then the rider is not able to go down into the aero Position.
The day I am able to ride 112miles in the aero-Bars, I start thinking about lost watts…
Until then I am happy with my Cannondale Slice with cheap Mavic Aero wheels
Flip the stem, remove as many as many spacers as possible (cylinders are really bad aero), cut the fork down.
Use an aero bottle on the seat tube
Unless you have giant hands, cut down the ski bends instead. Always think minimal. Less is more.
Upgrade front brake
Then, the only difference to a superbike is a couple watts from the frame at higher yaw and a couple watts from an integrated front end. Maybe 5W.
You can save more getting the right helmet/head position combo. Meaning you can probably save more with wind tunnel time or testing in a velodrome at an aero camp, then by trying to buy speed.
I asked a similar question not too long ago about my Trek E11 and the latest greatest bikes.
It has resulted in me buying a P5 last week Seriously though, I agree with what most say, the savings are probably barely noticeable, particularly during a sub maximal exertion such as the IM bike leg. The P5 white paper from memory states about 22 - 44s per 40km over other superbikes, and more again over others. If you class your bike as a super bike which you most probably could do, then over a half IM you might lose 40 - 80s or so over someone on a P5. It’s free time, but it’s not enormous.
For me, the decision to upgrade my bike was due to my Trek being 10 seasons old, a bit battered, rusty bolts, some creaking and groaning from the Ultegra that has also lasted 10 years, and it just felt like the right time for an upgrade now that shops are chucking out the 2014 P5’s for the new frame colour. I am hoping that for me, the P5 may give me 5 mins of free speed over an IM distance ride as compared to my Trek, but I am also having a Retul fit which should hone my position a bit, and this should save further time. All in, if I can get 10 - 15 free mins then the investment is worthwhile. How realistic this is, I don’t know, but I will be able to answer reasonably well in July when I do IM Germany for the 6th time.
The last two years, I rode on my Trek at an NP of 235w and 236w, so pretty much the identical ride, and I did 5:17 and 5:15 respectively. I was 90kgs on both occasions. It will be interesting to see, assuming that the conditions are pretty much the same - hot, little wind etc, what I go round in on the P5 next year. I am hoping to get my weight down significantly, but will perhaps give a good, if unscientific gauge as to how much difference the P5 has made.
Flip the stem, remove as many as many spacers as possible (cylinders are really bad aero), cut the fork down.
Use an aero bottle on the seat tube
Unless you have giant hands, cut down the ski bends instead. Always think minimal. Less is more.
Upgrade front brake
Then, the only difference to a superbike is a couple watts from the frame at higher yaw and a couple watts from an integrated front end. Maybe 5W.
You can save more getting the right helmet/head position combo. Meaning you can probably save more with wind tunnel time or testing in a velodrome at an aero camp, then by trying to buy speed.
I’m planning on some wind tunnel time in February. Will be testing helmets, suits and maybe some water bottle placements. I feel that my position is decent already. I do agree on the spacers - can I cut the steerer tube on my own?
i see youre from the boston area, where is there a place around here to do aero testing? Im in Brighton. have been looking but couldnt really find anything
by the way your bike is sexy. and i love your pain cave.
The day I am able to ride 112miles in the aero-Bars, I start thinking about lost watts…
Anybody who is fit enough to ride 112 miles, is fit enough to ride them in the aero position (other than technical sections, aid stations, and possibly some hills if they’re steep). If you can’t, then your position is wrong.
I’m planning on some wind tunnel time in February. Will be testing helmets, suits and maybe some water bottle placements. I feel that my position is decent already. I do agree on the spacers - can I cut the steerer tube on my own?
I’ve done it on every bike I’ve owned. Best to have a cutting guide of some kind, but not absolutely necessary. You can just use masking tape and make a nice line with a sharpee. If it’s not precisely square it doesn’t really matter much. It’s not a mating surface. What you may need is a star-nut driver tool to set the nut down further in the fork tube…but you might also be able to hammering it further down with a long bolt too.
i see youre from the boston area, where is there a place around here to do aero testing? Im in Brighton. have been looking but couldnt really find anything
by the way your bike is sexy. and i love your pain cave.
Here is the wind tunnel info: http://www.speedmerchantaero.com/ - it’s in southern NH. Nothing like the A2 or what Specialized has, but can do similar stuff. The coach I’ll be working with in 2015 has a group of his athletes go there for testing each year.
You’re losing more from tyres than frame. Cost of Omega brakes or Dash saddle (unless the ISM is uncomfortable) would be better used to put towards a new bike at some point.
Looking at your position the short aerobars are not helping- if you had better support from pads you may be able to relax into the bars better and get lower. You want to have things like that sorted before you go to tunnel otherwise any positions you test are more likely to be unsustainable.
You’re losing more from tyres than frame. Cost of Omega brakes or Dash saddle (unless the ISM is uncomfortable) would be better used to put towards a new bike at some point.
Looking at your position the short aerobars are not helping- if you had better support from pads you may be able to relax into the bars better and get lower. You want to have things like that sorted before you go to tunnel otherwise any positions you test are more likely to be unsustainable.
I’m running the Conti 4000s - I was under the impression that these are one of the best tires to use, weighing aerodynamics and puncture protection.
In regards to position, are you looking on my blog or just extrapolating based on the bike? I have a few spacers that I could still take out to go lower - maybe I can experiment with that on the trainer over the next month or so before going to the wind tunnel.
I’m running the Conti 4000s - I was under the impression that these are one of the best tires to use, weighing aerodynamics and puncture protection.
Not at your pace. 4000s best at high yaw (=really windy or slow rider), there are more aero tyres at low yaw.
In regards to position, are you looking on my blog or just extrapolating based on the bike? I have a few spacers that I could still take out to go lower - maybe I can experiment with that on the trainer over the next month or so before going to the wind tunnel.
Your aerobars looked short compared to everything else so I checked your blog. Hence the comment about not being relaxed - you look to be arching away from the bars a bit. What I do before tunnel sessions is identify some ideas to test - so fitting adjustable aerobars and an ergostem helps - then look at what gives narrowest shoulders and/or least difference between top of head and top of back. Then you can maximise your tunnel time but focussing on testing things that logically offer the possibility of being faster.
I used to do the weds night time trial n concord and there was a company that sponsored the race who owned a wind tunnel. Contact ata cycle in concord and they can give you the number
Sorry if I misunderstood this, but you posted some wind tunnel data that doesn’t include the Shiv, then say its not a super bike by any means?
Looking at that set of data, I think he was trying to post a chart that had my bike (Blue Triad) on it. At the time (5 years ago) the current Shiv didn’t exist and the top Cervelo was the P3.
Seriously though, I agree with what most say, the savings are probably barely noticeable, particularly during a sub maximal exertion such as the IM bike leg. The P5 white paper from memory states about 22 - 44s per 40km over other superbikes, and more again over others. If you class your bike as a super bike which you most probably could do, then over a half IM you might lose 40 - 80s or so over someone on a P5. It’s free time, but it’s not enormous.
