I know a couple of people who ride very fast on Hed Deep wheels front and back. They are nearly as heavy as a Zipp disc, but on flat to rolling courses the difference in aerodynamics between a set of Hed Deeps and say, a front Zipp 404 and rear disc is probably very minimal. In truth, I doubt even the new Zipp 808s are much faster than Hed Deeps. A Deep is a very solid race wheel for a someone on a budget. Or anyone for that matter. If you told me I had to trade my 909 set for Deeps I would shrug and go back to training.