I’d bet dollars to donuts that none of the Bianchi riders had lower drag than the Postal guys and those (Bianchi) guys are dreamin’ if they think those cut off aero’ bars work.
John Cobb (Bicycle Sports)
So much for his aero wisdom !
Uh … Ullrich was the world champ tt’ist in 01 right? he’s a monster and could have won on any TT bike in the tour, but would have been faster if set up better.
Cobb has done more aerodynamics testing and had more of a beneficial impact on the sport than any other single person (in recent times) to my knowledge.
I owe him, I know that.
For such an expert like Cobb, it’s kind of weird to make a general statement like that. What doesn’t work for Lance might just work perfectly for Jan. Just to say that those cutt-off bars don’t work for anybody on any bike, is just wrong, we all know and Cobb definitly knows, that aerodynamics is far too complicated to nail it down to a simple yes of no.
See the article on the water bottle on the down-tube. Seems weird but for some riders it might just work, for others not.
Did anyone else find Bobke’s analysis of Ullrich’s aero position (complete with teleprompter drawings of airflow over his back) laughable?! This is the first time that I’ve ever heard anyone talk about hand to wheel distance as being a critical measure of aero’ness. Good God man! His theory is that the low land position redirects the air up over the head better than a flat forearm position. Huh? I guess he’s now started to do his own wind tunnel tests using all that hot air he’s spewing out.
I am glad someone else noticed Bob Roll’s pretty silly teleprompter attempt. I got a good chuckle out that – I don’t know much, but I know his description of aerodynamics on the bike was not 100% based on wind tunnel testing.
I think he’s an entertaining guy, but THANK GOD they didn’t let him commentate with Phil and Paul like they did for the Giro.
If you look carefully, in the advert for the HED bar, with, I believe, Heras, his arms are one, pointed down, and two, his wrists are cocked in a similar position as Ullrich’s, contradicting basic philosophies stated by Cobb. Ammusing, considering it’s the bar he designed and a rider who he has fitted. I think today’s TT had everything to do with one kick-ass German Engine and less to do with aerodynamics than most of us are willing to admit!
“Ullrich… but would have been faster if set up better.”
for me, one of the stories of the tour this year was that someone has obviously been working with the bianchi team on TT fit and set up, and the team has obviously listened. i thought the bianchi team was, as a team, singularly the best set up team in the tour, and i think ullrich’s position is very good.
this isn’t a slap to john cobb. it’s just to say that it’s apparent that other teams are taking the TT seriously, and three or four years ago it was really only the posties that, as a team, considered the TT seriously. i was very surprised to see how good so many of the riders looked this year, and how well their TT bikes fit compared to years past.
if there’s one thing many of them haven’t yet learned, it’s that a high cadence follows a good TT position. while some of them, like moreau, still ride a relatively slow cadence, ullrich looks to me to be riding the TT 5 - 10 beats faster than he’s ridden the long TT in previous years.
Check out Jan’s relative seat tube angle…
VERY nice illustration! I’m guessing he’s around 77-78 degrees…whadayathink?
I’m still wondering about the low hand position and Greg LeMond’s statement about having another leverage point by using this position. Maybe that’s what these guys are doing…so what if it isn’t as aero if they gain enough power to offset the loss of aerodynamics? Then again, maybe it is just as aerodynamic…I have no way to know for certain.
I know most of these guys (if not all of them) could beat me while using only one leg, they are so powerful. What holds true for them may not hold true for us mortals. We mortals may need to get as good an aero positon as possible to maximize our potential, while these guys are concerned instead with techniques to ratchet up their seemingly limitless power.
Still, I’ll wait to see how the rides through the Pyrennes go, as well as the TT to follow them. I still believe that crafty LA is doing just what it takes, and no more, to stay ahead at this point. I’ll stay out on the limb I’ve already climbed onto, and still maintain that Mr. Armstrong hasn’t busted out his can of WA at this point. It sure makes for interesting discussions about his relative fitness, doesn’t it?
I don’t know 'bout yous guys, but dis guys arms look pretty downward-angled to me:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage12/JT/001lance_resend
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Ullrich won! I luv the underdog!
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how you know armstrong is disregarding cobbs advice nowadays?
- how you know armstrong is disregarding cobbs advice nowadays?
I watched the TT and was sad to see that Lance isn’t sitting on the bike the way I had him setup for the last few years. Ulrich had some pretty good power going on today however, I doubt the aero difference was the big issue. It takes a lot of power to offset a small aero difference.
John Cobb on the Bicycle Sports Forums.
Link below:
http://www.bicyclesports.com/forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1732
this position is starting to make sense to me.
First, we were told a couple of weeks back that having the arms way up was a lot more aero than having them flat. I presumed that was because of the self drafting effect the forarms had on the torso. Well, why wouldn’t having the arms way down shield the legs and be more effective than flat?
How is this for an aero idea - one arm way up shielding the torso and one arm way down getting the legs?
Wow! Say it isn’t so…
Frank is starting to buy into my argument (at least the aero part of it)…
MH
Wait, I thought this meant you were buying into my argument.
No, no - I think you are definately coming over to the dark side here, Frank. At least one of your hands is dropping down to our level…
:0)
MH