Does anyone else think this is like having a separate category for short basketball players? ( Besides Hid )
How many people who qualify actually compete in the category? I would guess that “heavy” men are more likely to claim Clysdesdale status than “heavy” women are to claim membership in the Athena category.
Speaking as a Race Director approximately 10 percent of my fields are Clydesdale/Athena and on a race of 500 or so that’s a pretty big category. Also this is not like short basketball players. I am not a Clydesdale myself but try staying up with a “skinny” 150 pounder and you weigh 200 plus and are all muscle. The point of the divisions is to encourage participation in the sport and if this gets the sport and my events more participaants then it is a good thing and I for one will continue to provide the categories.
Jack Weiss, RD
Take a look at the latest Traiathlete. There’s an article re clydes and how level the playing field is or isn’t. John Cobb weighs in on the subject and if his numbers are correct the obstacles to compete at the fop for clydes are significant.
Re a special category, speaking as a clyde, I don’t care one way or the other. I do enjoy the commradship racking my bikes with my large brothers and going head-to-head with them.
I think the Clydesdale/Athena categories as an avenue to raise participation and awareness for our sport is great. Team Clydesdale is an awesome organization that really works for its members. (Our NGB could probably learn a lot from them)
As far as Joe Heavyweight declaring himself the WORLD CHAMPION of the Over 40 - Clydesdale Category 4.3c (Over 200lbs, Under 6 ft tall, but not exceeding 220lbs), I’m a little more cynical and skeptical of that. But I have not issues with them having their own categories and awards…geez…maybe I’ll beef up a little and have a go at the world championships. 
Didn’t there used to be a pro basketball league with a maximum height restriction, like 6’6". The ABA or something like that?
Yes it is, to some degree…but it’s not like it’s an olympic event, which there is precedent for. Rowing started including the lightweight (under 160 pounds) category in the olympics in 1996. The same arguement was made against lightweights being included, as you hear about Clydesdales in triathlon. Generally rowing favors the taller bigger men…most heavyweight oarsmen at the olympic level are 6’3"+ and 200+. As a former competitive heavyweight rower, I was a bit miffed at the inclusion of lightweight events at the expense of a couple of heavyweight events from a pure athletic standpoint. Afterall, lightweight athletes had made the olympics (and won) in years passed simply because they were the fastest rowers, regardless of height or weight. However, including lightweights in the olympics was good for the sport, as a lot of developing countries could put out lightweight boats and be competitive.
At any rate, last year I decided to race age group instead of clydesdale. I finished near the top of my age group in every event I did… including a couple of wins at smaller events. Having said that, I know I could never keep up with the really fast skinny guys (especially on the run), regardless of how good my conditioning is, without dropping a lot of muscle. It’s not an excuse, it’s simply a fact…I’m too big to be a fast distance runner. I know this because, aside from the fact that I’ve never seen a 200+ pound man win a big time distance race (for running), I was a skinny little bastard in high school before I hit my growth spurt, and I could run faster then on less training then I do now. Believe me, pounding the pavement at 210 is a lot harder than pounding the pavement at 160.
Having said all that…On the local level, I don’t see much difference between giving out awards for every 5 year age group versus clydesdale/athena. Afterall isn’t an age group medal kind of like the nba for short people? 
I believe it was a 6’4 and under basketball league.
As for people that could be clydesdales … it doesn’t always men you’re “fat” … think tall (and/or muscular). Believe it or not, some guys think that an “athletic build” actually means “carrying some muscle”, not just “lean”. =)
As someone that’s not going to be winning their AG any time soon, I might as well look in a t-shirt (and without one). I have no desire of the “baggy look” just b/c I can’t fill out men’s clothes. Man, I sound like a jerk in this thread … maybe I should say something about TNO. =)
Hey, guess what, besides Greg Welch, there have been no lightweight guys (140 or under) who have podiumed at Hawaii. They all seem to be 5’10’ - 6’2", but they are 155 - 165. You can peel the onion any way you want. There are reasons for lightweight and heavyweight in all sports. Whatever brings the people in and keeps the competition alive. I was once opposed to Clydesdale, but now see the merit. Still looking for the NFL league for small guys. Still convinced I could make it in that league
Touche.
Yes, I think age group medals are a little like the nba for short people. I think age groups are particularly silly in an endurance sport like triathlon, where success is possible over a broad range of age. It isn’t a sport like, say, gymnastics, where 17 year-olds are considered elderly.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that heavier people are at a distinct disadvantage in triathlon; it’s simple physics. There’s also no doubt in my mind that folks like Cerveloguy are at just as much of a disadvantage as the Clydsdales in triathlon. Should we have a “Fasttwitch” category so they can compete?
I don’t buy Cerveloguy’s excuse about being fast twitch. I ran 11.5 in the 100 and 22 in the 200 in high school. Not blazing, but enough to be considered fast twitch. He just needs to put in the miles and develop some slowtwitch stuff. All he has to do is spend less time on this site and more in the saddle and on the trails :-).
I’m not a clyde, but only because I’m short. Really, I don’t care all that much about divisions or AG. Although if I was faster and looking at a Kona slot I might.
I race because I enjoy it. I like training. I like racing. I like being around other athletes giving it everything they’ve got, regardless of how fast they are.
Categories are nice for people who care, but overall we’re in it for fun, fitness, and a sense of accomplishment.
Jeez, let’s all get over cerveloguy’s fastwitch comment. He doesn’t like long course races… so what.
I like the cydesdale division, and I like Age-Groups. I have said in the past that I am against the “everyone is a winner in everything they do” type of attitude. But having age groups allows more people to be competitive on a regular basis. It also allows for people to be competitive into their later years. The argument could be made for fewer age groups.
At age 30, I realise I am going to be getting my butt kicked for 4 years in the 30-34 division, but the times in the 35-39 division actually “go down”! But, I can look forward to racing the same group of people for 10-20 (or more years). After my newbie lack of bike handling skills causes them enough injuries over time, that I’ll be king of my AG.
Seriously, I like the AG type stuff in individual, non-professional events. I also like the clydesdale division. Let the tall, fat, and muscular race each other. We can get into name calling fights as well. We can see who are the better racers, “The Stilts”, “The No-Necks”, or the “Dough Boys”. I doubt I’ll race clydesdale, b/c I’m only 197 (190 by raceday) and I think that would take away from what the cyedsdale division is set up for. People don’t need to be taking advantage of divsions, but rather racing in the most competitive one they can qualify for.
Let folks go back to the office and boast about finishing 5th in their AG. No one has to know it was 127th overall.
So you don’t believe that genetics and muscle composition play a role in triathlon? You’re saying that someone who is primarily fast twitch can compete head to head with a slowtwitcher in endurance events that last 1-10 hours, if they just spend enough time training?
Or are you just saying that Cerveloguy is a lying poser who doesn’t have a fast twitch fiber in his body, but is just too lazy to train?
See the Marion Jones & IM thread for a complete discussion.
Cerveloguy knows that I am just poking fun at him. Agreed, not everyone likes long course. I prefer training for long course but I like racing short course (OK, up to half Ironman is OK too). Khai, if I was 6’2" I’d be clydesdale with the same body composition that I have today, but hey, who cares. The main thing is that we are all out training and racing. Whatever gets people out it good, whether it is newbies on tri bikes, vets like me on road bikes, CEOs with new Ironman wetsuits, or guys on EPO (OK, I’ll draw the line at that)
Check out the mountain bike Single Speed World Championships…no age divisions, no weight classes, second place doesn’t count, just overall winner for men and women. And the award is a tattoo, or worse yet, a brand.
How about mountain bike division in triathlon, which we have here in Ohio. If you are just trying out triathlon and only have a hybrid or mountain bike, do you really need your own division? I actually saw a hardcore athlete (don’t know if he was a biker or runner or what, but defintely in shape) riding a mountain bike frame with a 650c aero fork, aero mtb wheels with skinny tires or maybe just 650c road wheels, aero bars, and 56 tooth chainring, straight block cassette, aero helmet- in the “mountain bike” category. Can you say SANDBAGGER?
"Cerveloguy knows that I am just poking fun at him. "
Did not.(nudge,wink)
Yeah, I followed that one, and it seems like we all agreed that she was never going to be competitive at IM. ( in the sense that she’s competitive at sprinting ) Which is obvious, I think.
So why not have a fast twitch category so she can compete, maybe win her division?
I still wonder what percentage of women who qualify as Athenas actually race in that category- anyone have any idea?
I think we should combine the categories of my 2 high school sports: Running & Wrestling
I may be able to get on the podium in the 40-44/175 lbs. AG/weight class!