Hey folks - I’m 6’4", 225 lbs or so. I’m down from 240 and want to get to 215 or so by the end of this summer, but at 6’4" tall, a busy corporate lifestyle, and closer to 40 than 30, I think ‘climber’ weight is impossible.
I’m able to blow past a lot of folks on the downhills, but it’s all a moot point on the uphills. I just can’t seem to haul myself up over the top of those things. What can I do? Is the answer “climb, climb, climb some more and when you’re sick of that, go climb even more?” Are their dryland training drills that help? Do I need to focus on a different muscle group?
I really like running hills. I found a decent short hill- a local football team runs repeats up it- maybe… 40’ elevation gain? I used to run stadiums, but since leaving college, there isnt one around thats adequate.
Anyways… I run them with cleats on, and with either a 25 or 45lb plate, held at my chest, over my head… or a steel pipe. I like to run sets of 5 or so, forward, backwards, lunges, long steps, hop…
Not sure how exactly it translates directly to hill cycling, but after 5-8 sets of 5 runs up (usually throw in a lap around the surrounding football/soccer/baseball field as a rest) it tears the hell out of the quads. Also breaks up the monotony of day to day training. as a fellow “big” guy (only 6-5 205) its a lot of fun to leg it out up that short hill.
When i was at that once a week, running hills got significantly easier.
on another note- I was told that simply finding a nice hill, maybe a mile in length, and a couple hundred feet in elevation- and doing repeats on the bike will get you to where you want to be.
Emulating climbing a hill is going to be difficult. The cookie cutter “push a big gear / low cadence” type thing doesn’t really teach your body how to handle going uphill. You really need an incline to do it.
Getting better at it though… raise your power output in general, and lower your weight. That’s pretty basic advice, but it’s also what’ll work.
on another note- I was told that simply finding a nice hill, maybe a mile in length, and a couple hundred feet in elevation- and doing repeats on the bike will get you to where you want to be.
Gawd, I hate being told that. For me its almost like being told to try the filet mignon when you can only afford the chicken soup.
This is my standard reply:
…/´¯/)
…,/¯…/
…/…/
…/´¯/‘…’/´¯¯`·¸
…/‘/…/…/…/¨¯\
…(’(…´…´… ¯~/‘…’)
….…‘…/
…’'….… _.·´
….…(
….….…
Find yourself a 1/2 mile long hill and repeat it many, many, many times! I’ve got one close to my house and one of my larger workouts each year ends up being 4-5 1/2 mile run uphill, 10-12 1/2 mile bike uphill, another 4-5 1/2 mile run uphill. That, my friend, is a workout! LOL
It’s easy to see improvements by using the same hill: you can look at time improvement/avg cadence/avg power/gear used/# of completed reps/etc.
I dont recall reading anywhere in the OP that he did not have access to hills. if he was in florida, and all he had was his “chicken soup” then sure, that might not help.
he asked what works. no amount of training is going to get 6-4 225 down to the 130lb climber- the only way to get better at hills…
specificity.
you wanna get good at hills, you ride hills.
good luck trying to pass off campbells chunky as a filet.
I lived in Florida for several years. We would hit the interstate overpass. It was a pretty decent hill to ride up. It was even the highest point in the county at 64 feet in elevation:)
It’s just power to weight ratio. There’s nothing special about climbing. You need to put out more power to go faster up hills (or down or on flats). To do this you need to raise your FTP.
Best way to do that are to do 2x20min at 95-105% ftp depending on how you feel that day.
Rinse, repeat.
The other way is to loose weight. I’m 6’6 185lbs trying to get to 180 in the next two weeks. You could lose some weight…good thing 2x20s burn lots of calories :).
I’m in Ontario, Canada. I have access to hills, I just suck at them.
But if the answer is “go climb those hills until you are absolutely sick and tired of hills,” well, OK, I can live with it. What I don’t want to do is repeat bad habits.
ie - is it better to get out of the saddle and mash a bigger gear, or try to run a consistent cadence? When you ‘run out’ of gears (all the way into the granny gear) am I better to get out of the saddle, spin a fast cadence and try to carry that momentum Or does this burn too much energy for anything other than an attack?
Hey folks - I’m 6’4", 225 lbs or so. I’m down from 240 and want to get to 215 or so by the end of this summer, but at 6’4" tall, a busy corporate lifestyle, and closer to 40 than 30, I think ‘climber’ weight is impossible.
Pure and simple, losing weight will produce your desired results. But, it depends how much you want it.
Climbing is a Power-to-Weight ratio endeavor. Research shows elite climbers weigh (in pounds) no more than twice their height in inches. So at 6’4" feet (76 inches) you’d need to weigh 152 pounds rather than 225. Granted, that probably ain’t gonna happen, but getting to 200 lbs (or less) will surely produce noticable results!
Don’t sell yourself short.
Case in point;
As a corporate professional, 47 years, 5’5" (65") and 128 lbs, very few can stay on my wheel on a sustained climb. Those who do, have similar power-to-weight ratios…skinny dudes!
** (By the way, when I decided to get serious about cycling, I weighed 150 lbs…and sucked!)
Interesting. The studs who beat me on Sunday all killed me on the bike. I out swam and out ran most of them. But, they put 4 minute on me on the bike. When I was talking to them after the race, all of them were very short and skinny. So, nothing I will be able to do will ever allow me to match their power/weight ratio.
Now, at 6’5", that is 77 inches. Times 2 is 154 lbs. I weighed 150 in high school. I am back to 168. So, guess I just need to keep working out and stay away from the junk food. Time to try and get real skinny again. :o)
My opinion is this: spin a faster cadence unless you are just out of gears in which case I alternate between standing and sitting, but sit more. If I know that I’ll face a hill that is steeper than my gearing (speaking of a race now), then I’ll add more gearing/cassette.
Seems to be 2 trains of thought…either spin or mash. I think the Evans vs. Basso time trial today was even an example of the 2 styles. I prefer and believe that the spin method is better. I even think Slowman wrote an article on spinning up hills and shifting earlier than you think you should so as not to “bog down”.
(By the way, when I decided to get serious about cycling, I weighed 150 lbs…and sucked!)
Dang, I weigh 155 and thought I was serious (at least as much as I care to be) about cycling. Perhaps I should take up swimming.
To the OP, beyond losing 75lbs like many have suggested, climbing (for longer durations, as least) requires a mindset similar to TTing. Many times people will hit it at the start of a climb and then let up or gas out shortly after. If you’re more of a diesel, a good approach is to ride your own tempo and not try to follow wheels. OTOH, if you’re more of a punchy rider then you might have to follow them.
Figuring out your strength and how you approach climbing will help. Drills are an entire debate not worth getting into here. Will only say that many, if not all, of the good climbers I train with do some hill-specific workouts that incorporate drills.
ie - is it better to get out of the saddle and mash a bigger gear, or try to run a consistent cadence? When you ‘run out’ of gears (all the way into the granny gear) am I better to get out of the saddle, spin a fast cadence and try to carry that momentum Or does this burn too much energy for anything other than an attack?
You generally reserve standing on the pedals for attacks, it uses too much energy for longer distances.
Also, it’s not just height and weight that affect your performance. How much power you produce relative to your weight is the key. If you’re skinny fat with chicken legs, then it doesn’t really matter if you’re 6’2" at 145 if your legs don’t produce enough force. Get your BF down to an ideal level while developing your quads and hammies.
I feel like everything that has been said is obvious: “Lose weight.” Duh. “Don’t be so fat.” Oh, ok. “Weigh 145 lbs.” I’ll do my best?
Here’s an honest answer: Go climb. Climb hard on hard days and climb easy on easy days. You have access to hills? Ride them, and ride them hard. 2x20 is a great workout - hit the first one pretty hard, and the second one so hard that you can barely ride your bike home.
Another is 5x5 minutes hard. Another is 6x4 minutes. Or 4x8 minutes. Have you noticed a pattern?
I am going to comment on the “riding uphill is just like a TT comment.” Bull****. Legs are at a different angle, you’re using different muscles (you use your lower back a LOT more while climbing), and you can coast during a TT.
One comment: you guys aren’t taking fitness into account. I’m 6’0", 144 lbs, my roadie weighs <17 lbs, and I get dropped like a bag of rocks whenever I ride with the cycling team. They’re used to hard-recover-hard-recover style rides. I don’t do that. During a TT, it’s gradually harder. No accelerations. Bike racers are more ready to handle a rolling climb because of this.
I climb…ALOT!! Many many miles per day of speeds at 8-10mph, and a heart rate of 160 at a cadence of 60-70. So I’ve noticed a few things, other then the “lose weight”. I’m a big guy at 6-3 185. Here’s a few things I’ve learned from amny many miles of climbing.
Some days are ALOT better the others, period. Thats the way it is.
Faster cadences will increase your heart rate, thus your breathing.
Slower cadences will increase lactic acid and legs will burn
See #2 and 3 and pick your poison.
I used to spin up hills at 80-90 rpm, heart rate was near max, but legs never really got super tired. It was hard to hold this after a few miles of breathing like a stuck pig and a heart rate going nuts.
SO, I’ve slowed the cadence a tad, 60-76, and my heart rate is more in control and I feel it in my legs more, but can hold it longer.
This slightly slower cadence has me climbing faster then the spinning. But, again, some days are better then others. With tired legs, spinning is faster and easier.
Its really hard to change a habit of the type of climbing you do naturally. I have to really concentrate on the lower cedance or I find myself spinning without knowing it. Practice,…ALOT. Then practice some more. I’m lucky as I have some 3 mile climbs, over 6% grades nearly right out my door. It sucks on “easy days”, as I never have any : )
Go back and re-read what I said: “Requires a mindset similar to TTing.” But If you coast during a TT then you don’t have the mindset for doing that well, either.
Btw, do you think it’s a coincidence that the very best GC climbers such as Contador, Lance, Evans, etc, etc are great climbers AND TTers? Gee, there must be nothing in common about the two…
npearson & persondude both had good advice. I’m about your size, 6’4 & 210 lbs & its taken me about 6 months of pretty hard work to become a fairly good hill climber. I can’t climb with the 130-140 elite climbers, and I’ll get dropped on certain hills during cycling road races (as no matter how strong/fit we big guys get, the accelerations in road cycling–especially on hills–are not going to be our forte), but on long TT style climbs (20 min +) I can do pretty well. A few observations from years of trial & error:
Weight matters. 10lbs is huge on a climb in terms of PE & simple efficiency. Some of the calculations show that it shouldn’t matter that much from a simple physics basis for someone our size, but it really does. Some of it will simply be that the cycling/fitness effort required for you to drop another 10-20 lbs is going to make you a better rider, but aside from the sheer poundage, you will become much more efficient, with a substantially great w/kg #, if you get your weight down as low as possible.
Watts matters. Climbing is about efficiency + power. As a big guy you should be able to put out pretty good watts. Learn, via 10, 20, 30, 60 min TT efforts what your max #s are for these various times & learn to ride effectively within 85-95% of them, repeatedly. Raise your FTP & you’ll increase your cycling/climbing prowess.
Efficiency matters. I’ve seen my biggest jumps in FTP this past 60 days because I do drills that force me to concentrate on utilizing all the muscles in the pedal stroke. Whoever posted that drills don’t matter is simply wrong: I come from a fairly high-level swimming background, and like cycling, swim stroke efficiency & technique matter. In swimming we would always work on drills to help our swiming stroke/kick. Cycling is no different. Triathletes tend to have a crappy pedal stroke—all push-push-push----very few have a fluid, full circle rotation. Do drills to build your weak spots in your cycling pedal stroke. Here are some that worked for me, and have given me a 15% jump in my FTP in the last 60 days:
a. Low cadence intervals 1-2x a week. On Tuesdays & Thursdays I would go into the hills & do intervals. Started with 4 x 6 min @ 90% HR w/cadence in the 60-70 rpm range. Just turning a big gear & working on keeping my heels up, dragging my foot across the bottom of the pedal stroke, and constantly thinking “high knees”—working on lifting during the “recovery” portion of the pedal stroke (7-12 on a clock). Started with 1 set of 4, with 5 min recovery b/t sets, and worked it up to where I’m now doing 3 x 20 min, with 10 min in between (but only 1x a week, as honestly 3 x 20 min is friggin tough mentally to get up for every week). Stay seated during all of these, except if you NEED to get out of the saddle for 10-20 secs to shake out the legs.
b. Extremely high-cadence 1x a week—Fridays I do a 2-3 hour ride at 105 rpm+. Just fries the legs but it forces me to pedal smoothly.
c. Climb. Then climb some more. You can diet, you can do a ton of drills/intervals, but unless you get your body used to climbing, it simply won’t adapt properly. Your body will make yourself more efficient build-wise—my swimmer’s body is gone, and its b/c 3-5 hour rides w/8-12k climbing are going to change your body’s shape thru attrition.
Unless you are born with genes that allow you to ride with the fast cyclists simply b/c of genetic gifts, you are going to need to work at climbing. Cycling is a blue collar sport—it rewards those that work hard (and smart). However always keep this in mind—its also the hardest sport to be absolutely mediocre at…especially if you are naturally built to play rugby but would rather ride the TDF.
