Climb Like Dan

Triathlon Forum
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Green Horn Mtns July 3rd, 2005

Slowman and I did what they call an “epic” ride this past Sunday. It involved a lot of climbing, only ONE of Dan’s specialties! One of us was an odd ball.

I rode my new Kuota Kredo, equipted with Record 10 39X23, weighing in at 17lbs at 73.5 degrees. (recently I added 25mm tires with thorn resistant tubes. It seems crazy to train on a 16lb bike and have nothing to go down to for racing. I can’t wait to take those thick and heavy tires off, replacing them with Reynold’s)

Dan rode a tri bike (I believe it was a QR Tiphoon) decked out with all kinds of crazy horseshit. He had aero bars with bar end shifters. His gearing was much more conducive to what we were riding. I think he had a 34X27 configuration. He believe he had a mtn bike deralieur on the back. His seat was set at his standard 81 degrees.

The climbs were like his seat angle. They were in dirt, they were on road. We spent 29 miles going uphill.

Climb like Dan or climb like Paul??? That is the question. If you did this ride and wanted to climb like Paul, you would have been out of the saddle nearly the entire day. The only time I really took a seat was when we were in the steep dirt, so the back wheel did not spin out.

Dan, on the other hand, did what I have never seen done before. He spent 90% of all climbing in his aero bars in a CSCesque position. With his low gearing, he was able to spin pretty efficiently climbing up a steep mtn in the dirt. THe only time he stood was when he needed a change. As soon as he stod up, his knees were whacking against the pads to the bars. Because Dan is used to a lot of whacking, it did not seem to be a problem!

I have failed to ask him how his low back feels. I would be seized up, lying on the side of one of the dirt or paved roads we were on, sucking my thumb. I bet if Dan had my set up, he would also be on the side of the road, unsuccessfully dialing Monty for a ride on his cell phone (which no one gets a signal up there) as he would not make it up with my gearing. The only commonality we have, is we ride the exact same size road bike.

Good thing we did not end up on the side of the road in dispair. When I was leaving the mtns in my VW Euro Van, I came accross a guy that seemed to be either drunk or injured on a quad runner. As I got closer, he was cover in blood. He had just been atacked by a mtn lion. It had jumped from out of a tree and latched onto the side of his face/neck. Knocked him off his quad. Both the man and motorized vehicle rolled down the hill. This could have been straight out of a movie. The bloody man was relieved to know that there was a town of approx 25 people 400m up the desolate road we were on. Our camp was another 5mi up the road, just a few bounds away from the pissed off cat.

See you in the Green Horns next 4th of July weekend. Bring either your road or TT bike, it’s your choice! You might want to bring some Mountain Lion Repelent.

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Guess Dan is determined to prove it can be done but I don’t suspect the TDF guys in the mountain stages will be switching over too soon.

As for the mountain lion - hot damn. The only thing I’ve ever encountered in my trail runs is a black bear.

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mr. bloody man is one lucky guy to be alive…

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“Guess Dan is determined to prove it can be done but I don’t suspect the TDF guys in the mountain stages will be switching over too soon.”

i’m not sure you’re really getting the point here. were every bike legal in every race, yes, i’d still ride a road race bike in mass start races when climbing is the predominent activity. so, i certainly agree with you, i don’t suspect the TDF guys in the mountain stages will be switching over soon or at any time, both for legality reasons and because they’re currently riding the appropriate bike for that sort of stage.

in timed events, i’d also ride a road race bike were climbing the ONLY activity.

in timed events (like a triathlon) where a tri bike is indicated (the great, great majority of races), then i’d want to climb on a tri bike the way a tri bike wants to be used for climbing.

so, your point appears to me off-topic.

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"so, your point appears to me off-topic. "

You mean the one about the mountain lion. :slight_smile:

I’ve tried 48/34, 50/36, 50/39 and 53/39 on my P2K and understand where you’re coming from. The P2K climbs fine in the aero position but once it becomes really steep and have to sit up it then is a total dog on the hills since I ride a 79/80 seat angle. I agree 100% that most triathletes are over geared and could get up the hills better with compacts since it would allow them to stay in the aero position longer.

But - If I was going on this hill ride with you guys I’d still opt for my road bike with the compacts over the tri bike.

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“But - If I was going on this hill ride with you guys I’d still opt for my road bike with the compacts over the tri bike.”

no doubt. it was a toss-up what bike i was going to take up there. all things equal, the road bike is the better bike for the riding we were doing. but i just felt i needed to get miles in on my tri bike.

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Would you take into consideration a riders body weight when choosing the proper gearing for climbing on a tri bike?

For example, I am only 145lbs, would there be a benefit to me using smaller than a 39 up front? I hear many people talk about using a road bike at IMLP but I think a properly geared tri bike would be a better answer for me, especially because the run is my strength.

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I think that a person’s body weight is an inaccurate way to determine gearing for anything. Fitness and riding style (big gear vs. spinner) is what I think determines what fear ratios one would use. I got hammer with food poisoning 2 weeks back. My weight went down 6 ounds in 2 days. One would think that the lighter you are the bigger gear you could manage going uphill. I could not turn a 32x32 after my sickeness!

I will say if you take a very fit 5’7" 129 pound rider and a very fit 6’0" 177 pound rider and raced them at the Everest Challenge, the smaller guy can manage bigger gears. (I say this because I was amazed that the Drew Miller and Ron Hudson-both under 135- used a 39x23 at Everest Challenge 2 years ago, while I needed a 39X29 to climb the 29k feet in 2 days. I probably could have used a third chainring, barely able to make it up the last climb at 177lbs)

My experience is if you are doing a triathlon, use a a tri bike. I rode a Trek OCLV with clip on bars for the majority of my racing 1994-1999. In 2002 Nytro got me to try on of their Felt TT/tri bikes. I was kicking myself in the ass to not have called Cervelo, Felt and a few of the other great companies to ride a real bike. Nothing wrong with my Treks, as long as you are racing in “road races.”

Unless there is 10,000 feet of climbing in your 112mi bike leg, I recommend using a tri specific bike. I am sure Empfield could do all of the climbs at IMLP w/o deviating from his aero position.

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What would you ride where evading mtn lions was the ONLY activity? =)

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depends.

I use a 39x25 (standard 53/39 DA with a 12-25 Ultegra 9) on my roadie to help build leg strength. On my Dual, I have a FSA MegaEXO compact and have a half dozen cassettes (11-25, 12-25 x2, 12-23, 12-27) so I can pick which one I want to use out on the course.

For wildflower I used a 12-27 to save the legs for the run, at SJIT i used a 12-23 to have close ratios. I’m also 220ish pounds, so climbing with that isn’t exactly like being on a cloud.

I think a lot of has to do with you. Are you a masher, a spinner, or in between? I like to push a big gear at 85-90. some will spin at 105 all day long. others will grind at 75-80 in a monster gear.

Do what works for you, others be damned.

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A shirtless, shoeless Tibbs, slightly bleeding from one or more shallow wounds.

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Depends.

I’d be wearing Depends because I know I’d piss my pants.

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<< but i just felt i needed to get miles in on my tri bike.

why are you actually going to do a triathlon the second half of this year?

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…I sense a challenge coming on:))
.

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“are you actually going to do a triathlon the second half of this year?”

hey, it’s not all about racing. but, maybe i will. i just haven’t found anything that interests me yet.

what i’m doing NOW is racing 3mi cross country every thursday evening, mostly against high school kids. now THAT’S fun. tomorrow is the second of six more thursdays of it.

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hmm, you haven’t turned 50 yet have you? meaning we’re in the same age group now!! Actually the only race I’ll get to do this year (before Nov. 30th) in the 45 - 49 age group is Worlds. Are you going to KC Nationals? Coming to Carlsbad this weekend?

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Would you take into consideration a riders body weight when choosing the proper gearing for climbing on a tri bike?

For example, I am only 145lbs, would there be a benefit to me using smaller than a 39 up front? I hear many people talk about using a road bike at IMLP but I think a properly geared tri bike would be a better answer for me, especially because the run is my strength.

Simon is a pretty good runner too. He liked the idea of the road bike at IMLP last year…

http://www.ironmanusa.com/ImageGallery/images_2004/asi_3591-513-002f.jpg

http://www.ironmanusa.com/ImageGallery/images_2004/usa2004.php?directory=.&currentPic=108

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“Are you going to KC Nationals? Coming to Carlsbad this weekend?”

not going to carlsbad, $135 is just overpriced for that race. to the point where even were i comp’d i still wouldn’t go out of principle.

KC, i’m not entered, don’t have any plans to go. the bike and run will be there, but the swim won’t be ready, and while i might be able to qualify for WC i don’t plan on going to worlds, so there’s no reason to travel to KC.

i’m pointing toward the masters 10K championships (road) in paso robles in september.

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My bike is set up pretty much like Dan’s (gearing, angles, etc.) but I never climb in the aerobars except in a headwind. I sit for long climbs and stand for short periods (1-2 minutes).