Explain something to me. I was talking with a liberal atheist the other day and I mentioned I thought that churches should be taxed. He objected to this say that a tax would destroy small churches and encourage the mega churches to spread. I pointed out that it is none of government’s business which churches thrive and which fail he agreed but said the negatives where too strong. Since it will take me a few months to build up the endurance taken to talk to him about politics I was wondering who agreed with him and why.
while we are at it, lets take away tax deductions for charitable donations. the government has no business deciding what is a charity and what isn’t.
There is a difference. Not all church money goes to charitable causes. Most of it goes to church up keep, missionary work, printing of books of faith, keeping a full time clergy, etc. you know church stuff. Thin argument.
how is it a thin argument, both are legal charitable contributions which are tax deductible as are gifts to the left’s religion, the ACLU Foundation.
The left’s religion. I remember when I used talk like that. The one big huge fact that can not be argued is that the purpose of a church is worship not charity.
I remember when I used talk like that.
you are enlightened now?
I am the least enlightened person in any room. I just want to use words properly now and make sense. Trust me in countless way I am not that great or highly educated a guy.
correct me if I am wrong but you started this thread because you now dislike Christians. you don’t really care about the tax code.
You are 100% wrong in every way. I have never supported or stated a desire to rid the world of churches through government or mob force. The single most important thing to me is the rights of humans to believe how they choose. In typical Lavender Room fashion let me make a stupid yet true declaration. If the Bible was banned in the US I would be the first in line to smuggle Bibles into the US using force if necessary.
Excellent! Now back to the topic. I would say that congress in its infinite wisdom allows the deduction as they see some kind of greater good that goes on in church organization. Money at a church is not just used for actual operating expenses. It goes to support community and global works that help people. Think Katrina. I would guess that a good percentage of folks that help there are faith based. Our church send teams there on a regular basis to help rebuild. It isn’t primarily a missionary thing, it a love thing, to help where needed. Locals funds given to our church support that kind of thing. Think of other faith based organizations that provided soup kitchens, shelters, aids patient care, hospice. Quite often they are sponsored by a local church organization. To take that deduction I think would possible slow, but not stop that kind of work.
On Principle:
Support tax exemptions for charitable contributions (religious or not).
Don’t support tax exemptions for salaries, clubs, recreation halls, etc.
I’d even support a minimum tax exemption across the board for charities/churches to allow for a minimal staff and infrastructure, but once they start building TV studios and raking in millions, then I think it becomes a business and should be taxed as such.
We’re going through this debate here in Indiana, at least with respect to property taxes, which churches do not pay. Also, many hospitals, which are apparently run as not-for-profits, do not pay property taxes – despite having enough money to pay massive CEO salaries, build fantastic new facilities, etc. Profits are plowed back into the hospital and staff, so technically they are not for profits. We also have the typical mega-churches here, which have bookstores, gift shops, etc – all generating revenue. At the very least, I think these charities should have to pay some sort of user fees to help cover the costs of things like police and fire protection, which they do not pay for now.
We also have the typical mega-churches here, which have bookstores, gift shops, etc – all generating revenue
If a non-profit, like a church, has a side business, like a bookstore, then they have to pay taxes for that business.
I lived in Germany for a couple years. When filling out the tax paperwork for the first time, I was dumbfounded when immediately after my name and date of birth, I was supposed to enter my religion! This wasn’t a census survey or anything like that, more like an American W4 form. Born and raised a red-blooded American and son of a Jefferson scholar, I thought that kind of thing went out of practice circa 1776. I left that line blank–my religion is none of their damn business.
I learned later that in Germany and other European countries too apparently, the churches are funded by the state. If you declare a religion on your tax forms, they’ll tax you even more and pass some along to the designated church. *
How’d you like THAT system?!
(*That’s my understanding anyway. Wenn das nicht richtig ist, sagen Sie hier.)
We also have the typical mega-churches here, which have bookstores, gift shops, etc – all generating revenue
If a non-profit, like a church, has a side business, like a bookstore, then they have to pay taxes for that business.
Not property tax…at least not in Indiana…
I would think that the buildings where a taxable business are located would have to pay property tax.
As I understand it, property tax exemption is the decision of the local tax boards. For example, local governments give property tax breaks to business to attract jobs and growth.
Churches have branched out…bookstores, coffee shops, fitness centers, broadcast stations…all of which can be done without paying tax. There was a church near Notre Dame that built a retirement community for church members and lobbied for no property taxes (I don’t know the outcome). Church theme parks have also become tax free.
I have always said a church that cannot prove it’s charitable worth should be taxed like an amusement or entertainment business. If it can prove it’s charitable worth, then let it continue to operate tax-free. This would close down the mega-church chain stores.
I get mad because in my community, the police direct traffic for a big mega church. My tax dollars are going for that. That just makes me angry.
There is a difference. Not all church money goes to charitable causes. Most of it goes to church up keep, missionary work, printing of books of faith, keeping a full time clergy, etc. you know church stuff. Thin argument.
So are you saying that organizations such as the Redcross should not be tax deductible either because a portion, quite a large portion, is going towards, facility upkeep, wages, missionary work of sorts, keeping full time staff…you now, red cross stuff.
Basically the same could be said about any “Charitable” organization to one degree or another. Most churches around here have some level of charity whether that’s as little as hosting an AA meeting or as large as operating full time soup kitchens and overnight sleeping area’s.
~Matt
The Red Cross is not a religion. The United Way is not a religion. We can say charity all day but the point of a church is the worship of a god/gods.