Cheaters...am I the only one who doesn't care?

Triathlon Forum
1

All these threads on cheating got me thinking as people get very worked up over it which I get.

But, personally I just don’t care that much. This is a hobby for me and if there are people who are engaging in pre-meditated cheating (put aside, heat of the moment decisions) in amateur competitions then I think their existence is so sad and pathetic that I just don’t care if they finish ahead of me as long as they don’t endanger my safety. I’m sorry, I just don’t.

I’m okay if you feel differently and understand the rage, but am I alone in feeling this way???

2

Just because it’s a “hobby” eliminates the desire to compete well and win?

3

Hell no. I’m super competitive and want to win. I just don’t believe I’m losing if a cheater beats me. When I was 20 and in college, I would have thrown a fit if someone cheated. Now, I guess I take a bigger picture view of things. If a cheater thinks they beat me, good for them, I just don’t care.

4

Perhaps its because the honest racers never realty get a true gauge as to where all their hard work has gotten them relative to their fellow competitors. Perhaps you do a lot of your racing locally and see improvements then go out of state and find after putting in a big block of training and suddenly you’ve gone backwards in one or more disciplines. You might question whether you’re training was effective.

At the end of the day it probably means more to those at the pointy end, where placings and in particularly podiums take on more significance.

5

OP, I’m totally with you.

I’m not going to Kona or elite ever, but I have won my AG in smaller triathlons several times, and have won a few local running races outright. I’m HIGHLY competitive with myself, meaning I race my ‘last year’ time or USAT score, and really niggle about the seconds sometimes!

That said, I think it’s definitely misplaced to spend a lot or any time worrying about cheaters anI thd dopers at the AG level as a non-KQ competitor. (I’d feel differently if I was shooting for KQ and missed it by 1 spot due to a doper, sure.)

I found all the anger at Finman totally bizarro world. I mean seriously - ok, he clearly cheated and brought/used fins, but come on man, this guy was a BOPer, and nobody freaking cares about his results. Yet the 3000+ posts of hatemail he got one that Finman thread made it look like he murdered someone. Seriously, Slowtwitch?

I’m also well aware of the increasing prevalance of dopers and testosterone users. I’m not saying we should turn a blind eye, but reasonable low-cost efforts to monitor are enough for the AGers. If I get beat and knocked of an AG podium because of a doper, I’m fine with that.

If someone wants to go through the heroics of doping, cheat-drafting with marshals on the course, etc. just to beat me, they’re just cheating themselves - nobody else cares about their results.

Again, I wouldn’t be as cavalier about the cheating/doping situation in the pro/elite purse ranks or in the front-runners of national-class races who are usually KQ-bound - I think it’s a good idea to have regular drug testing even for amateurs at that level. But for 99.9% of the AGers, which includes me, it’s irrelevant to my performance.

6

I see your point. In the end, you’re only cheating yourself. I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people do to accept what they’ve done as being ok but as the saying goes: not my circus, not my monkeys.

On the other hand, if you’re cheating someone else to of something by cheating I think it’s worse. If you cut a course and KQ that means another person who didn’t cheat got robbed. Ditto for getting positive results leading to sponsorships etc. Someone else earned it legitimately, and not the cheater. Those people I admit I take some schadenfreude in seeing them fall.

7

.

At the end of the day it probably means more to those at the pointy end, where placings and in particularly podiums take on more significance.

Those are my feelings. I’m MOP, and I truly don’t care if some folks ahead of me doped or used fins, etc. I do 70.3 and IM races for myself, to challenge myself.
Yes, I’m sure I’d feel differently if I were in contention for a Kona slot, thus I support testing of those positions. But otherwise, meh, I don’t care.

8

All these threads on cheating got me thinking as people get very worked up over it which I get.

But, personally I just don’t care that much. This is a hobby for me and if there are people who are engaging in pre-meditated cheating (put aside, heat of the moment decisions) in amateur competitions then I think their existence is so sad and pathetic that I just don’t care if they finish ahead of me as long as they don’t endanger my safety. I’m sorry, I just don’t.

I’m okay if you feel differently and understand the rage, but am I alone in feeling this way???

I think the operative word there is “hobby”, for many it is not. The reality is that many more have dreams to get to a certain level, even make a career out of it, but that dream is stifled by cheaters.

9

I guess I view any amateur as a “hobbyist”…I’m very competitive at that hobby but unless it is my job, it’s a hobby …do you have a different definition for non pros??

10

All these threads on cheating got me thinking as people get very worked up over it which I get.

But, personally I just don’t care that much. This is a hobby for me and if there are people who are engaging in pre-meditated cheating (put aside, heat of the moment decisions) in amateur competitions then I think their existence is so sad and pathetic that I just don’t care if they finish ahead of me as long as they don’t endanger my safety. I’m sorry, I just don’t.

I’m okay if you feel differently and understand the rage, but am I alone in feeling this way???

I think the operative word there is “hobby”, for many it is not. The reality is that many more have dreams to get to a certain level, even make a career out of it, but that dream is stifled by cheaters.

Thomas, all due respect, I honestly don’t think any MOP/BOP athlete’s dreams are being stifled. And I’d say ‘getting to a certain level’ for most AG’ers means attaining a specific time goal, not placing 50th instead of 300th. My age group usually has 300+ people in it. In the 8+ WTC events I’ve done, I honestly don’t think I’ve ever looked to see where I placed, just wanted to know my own time.

11

I don’t care enough to get enraged and spend a lot of time letting it bother me. But if I was trying to KQ or was near the podium for one of my bigger A races I would definitively be upset if I saw somebody cheating. For some local races I’ve seen some stuff like outside assistance but I’m certainly not going to get bent out of shape because somebody’s spouse handed them a cup of water. But when there’s stuff where somebody cheated to BQ or KQ I understand people getting really angry

12

I expect people to do the right thing, always.

Doesn’t matter if it’s your 4th grade spelling test, stopping for a stop sign, cheating in an amateur race, or not putting your spouse into a wood chipper, do the right thing.

13

At first I think I don’t really care about cheating.

It wouldn’t bother if there were lots of slow age group racers that cheat, who I can easily beat.

It wouldn’t bother if there were a few fast age group racers that need to cheat in order to beat me.

It is only fun to compete against “worthy competitors.”
And cheaters are unworthy!
(They are playing a different game).
So who cares what they do.

What would upset me - would be if it turned out someone I considered to be a “worthy” competitor was really cheating.
Or a pro I really respected.

14

I don’t care either… I think they are sad though.

If I was going for a KQ spot and they beat me… I’d feel different. If they were going for any kind of spot and beat someone else… I think it’s wrong. Basically if they are competing for “nothing” and I mean absolutely nothing… then go ahead … just don’t brag on social media either. Basically STFU with your cheater ways… I guess I care more then I thought :slight_smile:

15

Cheaters are the worst. They undermine the integrity of the sport and marginalize the hard work of everyone else…especially if they win.

Now, they can raise the bar. If Alice Aaanderton decides to cheat at is able to complete a 3:30 half ironman…that just makes me work harder to beat Alice.

16

I guess I view any amateur as a “hobbyist”…I’m very competitive at that hobby but unless it is my job, it’s a hobby …do you have a different definition for non pros??

Using the term hobby is fine. But I don’t think that affects the argument much. Couple of points.

Just because something is a hobby doesn’t meant that it doesn’t take on significant personal value to people. There is often a genuinely significant enjoyment and sense of accomplishment resulting from all kinds of hobbies - not just sports. Though I enjoy my professional job and other aspects of my life, for the past ~35 years I’ve dedicated around 10-20 hours per week at endurance hobby because I derive a huge amount of value from hobbyist competition. It’s what I look forward to almost every day. I may take more personal value from it than many pro athletes.

Second, the fundamental nature of any sport, amateur or pro, is based upon mutually agreed-upon rules. And often bodies created to enforce those rules. Ignoring violation of those rules undermines the nature of sport itself. If you’re playing, say, a board game with a bunch of 6 year-olds, and you catch one cheating, what do you do? Gently correct the cheating? Or tell all the other kids not to worry about it because the game doesn’t really matter anyway? I think you gently correct the behavior. I don’t think you let it go because “Pictionary is just a hobby.” The game loses its enjoyment and meaning to everyone else if it goes uncorrected. I don’t see any type of amateur competition as being any different than that. The enjoyment is derived directly from mutual trust regarding the rules. And ignoring cheaters starts to undermine that trust.

Yeah, some of the web-rage and witch-hunt stuff is way over-the-top. But there’s an amateur bike racer who was just busted for doping. And I finished just below him on two podium finishes I had last year. I’m glad he got caught. No rage, per se. Just glad he’s gone, and I’m glad the rules and enforcement steps were in place to get rid of him, even though we’re both hobbyists.

I don’t care that you don’t care, though. :slight_smile:

17

Right…your and/or the rage of others has been expressed in many other postings…I get it…and Im not trying to reiterate those arguments…i am more interested in the psyche of those like me who may not care.

18

I guess I view any amateur as a “hobbyist”…I’m very competitive at that hobby but unless it is my job, it’s a hobby …do you have a different definition for non pros??

No, not a different definition but it is a slippery slope. If guys/gal who want to make a living have to dope/cheat to beat the other dopers/cheaters it just breeds a cultural of dopers/cheaters. Most of society’s law/rules/reg are designed to keep the masses, say 80% from going to the dark side. 10% will never cheat, 10% will cheat no matter what

19

If you are looking for that, you are looking for people that are in a state of zen. Those that can look around and say, “I see you cheater.” and realize that there is nothing that THEY can do about it. If they get caught from drug testing/video/etc. it’s something from the outside doing it.

Edit: For Thomas G. - Those 10% that will always cheat must work with me in finance.

20

I just don’t think you have been in a situation to care. Assuming you are competitive I bet you would “care” under the following scenarios:
Someone who you passed on the bike suddenly appeared in front of you on the run and finished in front of you.Someone let air out of your bike tire in transitionA group of 5 passed you on the bike doing a TTT and subsequently all of them finished ahead of you.

Although I don’t care that cheaters are out there doing cheating, that is only because I’m not in these races. I do care that people willingly subvert rules to improve their rank or performance.