Then buy the P4. What do I care what you ride?
Then buy the P4. What do I care what you ride?
Naah…I’m holding out for the Shiv3 
The OP was asking questions about the P4 or the SC.
My opinion is that I like the amount of integration found in the SC and personally would like to see more improvement from other manufacturers into this direction, and I have been stating this for a couple years now. I’m not exactly a huge Trek fan and more or less a Cervelo fan until recently.
In the link of Rapp’s picture, he does not seem to be carrying much more than a Gu flask and no flat protection. For some people, that is fine, but for the MAJORITY of triathletes that dedicate 300 to 400 hours of their free time training for a single event, plus the $1,000’s of dollars in associated travel, lodging, and entry fee’s; they will not leave T1 WITHOUT flat protection.
When I do a 40K TT, I carry nothing. If I do a sprint triathlon, 1 water bottle. On an IM, I carry pretty much what everyone else does in these pictures so that I can complete the race in the advent of any issue that may arise on the bike. Flat, chain break, handlebar slip, whatever. To me, the bike portion of an IM is just a necessary transition from the swim to the run and the bike is just a platform for nutrition.
For example, Rev3 was basically in the middle of nowhere Connecticut with 56 miles of open roads, including broken glass and potholes. If one did not bring flat protection, it would a unwise decision if the intent was to finish the race. On top of that, one would typically have to spend at least $500 to attend (race fee, lodging, meals, gas, flight, rental car, shipping fees). Most airline travel races are $1,000, all said and done. At that level of cost, finishing becomes very important.
I just believe that a lot of bike manufacturer’s spend money on improving TT bikes by slim margins to increase the edge on a Tour de France rider. Until Trek came along, nothing addressed the needs of a typical Ironman Triathlete. So if I can carry my flat protection, nutrition, and hydration in a manner that is not cluttered on the bike, then that is a larger improvement to the bike than the latest airfoil placement.
Check out all these typical set-ups from another thread:
http://triathlon.competitor.com/...quassy_9934?pid=5004
Can you tell me, if anything, about what these people are carrying is unnecessary for a long course triathlon? What might have been very aerodynamic frames HAVE to be marred by the necessities of what one NEEDS to bring.
Unnecessary? I’d say most of it. You don’t see Jordan Rapp’s bike loaded down with all of that crap, do you?
He tends to do fairly well in long course triathlons, no?
The Trek Speed Concept pretty much accommodates these needs in a very good solution that other manufacturers have yet to address. The Cervelo P4 may very well be faster in an individual TT where you do not need things like a water bottle, spares, and food. In a long course triathlon, it would be a very unwise tactic not to bring these items with you.
To me, this is why the Trek Speed Concept highly intrigues me while something like the P4 has not motivated me to purchase one.
So…what you’re saying is that the SC “intrigues” you because it has, in automotive terms, a “spacious trunk”? Got it
Not only that, but he doesn’t even have pockets on his suit stuffed with crap. How do you do it Jordan?
Where is his (Rapp’s) spare tire/tube?
Where is his (Rapp’s) spare tire/tube?
IIRC, he doesn’t take one. He’s running tubulars and relies on a can of PitStop (or Fast’air) to fix any punctures. If he has a cut in his tire more than can be fixed by that, he “pulls the plug”…and, I imagine, saves his energies for another race where he could place better (and thus make more money
I’m pretty sure all of his repair items fit in a baggie that’s taped to the underside of his seat.
Now then, for a clincher setup (that the typical AG triathlete should use IMHO) a spare tube and tire levers would fit under there as well. In fact, that’s what I do for myself for the local TTs that I ride to from my house. My CO2 inflator is taped to the stem.
Holy aerobar spacers, Batman!
Well that explains the the bulkiest item you saw behind the seat of many of those “bad” bikes. The tubular (Plus inflators all that). Most people probably don’t want to chance it on a can of PittStop.
I think in the Ask me about IMC thread rappster talks about having a tubular spare and having it strapped to the seat of his bike.
I don’t have any pictures of my bike that are good linkable pics, but it’s not hard to have a clean bike during an IM race and carry adequte nutrition + flat prevention.
not my bike, but it’s chiro18’s and I taught him everything he knows
I guess “adequate” and “clean” are in the eye of the beholder. I consider any round water bottle inadequate.
Ya, this is the only chart I can find, but it’s from Trek… Maybe slowtwitch can give us a review?
Aluminum brake surface on the Zipp wheelset. Most likely a clincher as Zipp does not use any aluminum on their deep rim/disc tubulars.
There is a whole discussion of that data in another thread:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2848761;search_string=speed%20concept;#2848761
I think if you can come up with a drag amount between the front ends and then correct for that and move the P4 line accordingly, you probably have a good approxiamation.
Aluminum brake surface on the Zipp wheelset. Most likely a clincher as Zipp does not use any aluminum on their deep rim/disc tubulars.
Aaah…that pic I grabbed must have been from his trip to Abu Dahbi, where I think he took clinchers for logistics purposes. Even better, I’ll bet he had a spare tube and CO2 under that seat
In the link of Rapp’s picture, he does not seem to be carrying much more than a Gu flask and no flat protection.
Ummm…no. As you pointed out, in that pic he’s running clinchers. Which means his spare tube, tools, and CO2 are in the baggie duct taped to the underside of his seat.
When I do a 40K TT, I carry nothing.
That’s funny, in a 40K TT I actually carry a spare tube, a tire iron, a 5mm allen key, and a CO2 inflator. The tube, iron and hex key all fit under the seat between the rails and are held in place with a piece of duct tape. The CO2 is taped to the stem.
As you say, most of the courses are out in the middle of nowhere and it’s a long walk back to the car…
Pet Peeve: Triathletes thinking that they can’t learn anything about bike setup from TT’ers
Well that explains the the bulkiest item you saw behind the seat of many of those “bad” bikes. The tubular (Plus inflators all that). Most people probably don’t want to chance it on a can of PittStop.
One more argument for triathlete to run clinchers. A spare tube is certainly MUCH less bulky than an entire spare tire.
Tom, while I realize it is against the very fibre of your being to allow any thread to pass without turning it into a sermon on how clinchers are better than tubulars, the fact remains that some people do use tubulars and will continue to do so, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Some of them are even pros. Many of them are going to want to carry a spare. They still need a place to store it.
What do you think about this type of analysis - because I didn’t know which Specialized Transition, Felt B2 and set-ups they used for the other bikes I went with the pricing linked or noted at the end of each row. Obviously if these assumptions are wrong the analysis is off, but can easily be changed - as you can see I completely guessed at what the chart data points were actually as well:
Tom, while I realize it is against the very fibre of your being to allow any thread to pass without turning it into a sermon on how clinchers are better than tubulars, the fact remains that some people do use tubulars and will continue to do so, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Some of them are even pros. Many of them are going to want to carry a spare. They still need a place to store it.
I don’t sermonize. I just lay out the facts.
If you have your heart set on a P4 or Speed Concept, good for you. However, there are other bikes that might be worth looking into, like The Sergio’s Machine: Cycpro 2010 Cyco, which is probably way faster than both of those hogs.
