OK,
I did Ironman Brazil this year and there were a ton of P3’s. Now this bike is aluminum, yet so many people claim it gives a comfortable ride. My experience with aluminum bikes is that they tend to give a pretty harsh ride. So I couldn’t imagine riding one for an Ironman distance. What did the guys at Cervelo do to change the ride quality for the P3 ? From the reviews I have read, the P3’s ride qualilty seems to be more like a Ti or Steel bike as far as absorbing shock. What gives ?
It’s not just frame material. Design is more important. Also having a carbon fork, carbon seat post and tubular tires will help smooth out ride stiffness.
I do not have a clue-I am not a techie person. But I have a P3 and agree that it is far more comfortable than other aluminum bikes I have ridden (I also own a R3000 Cannondale, that is a great bike but far harsher than the P3. Coincidentally, I rode the Cannondale yesterday on the road for first time in a long time and there is no comparison in comfort.)
OK, I will bite. What in the design attributes the to the great ride people rave about (Without giving trade secretes away 
)
I understand that by having a carbon seat post, carbon fork and say Zipp tubulars will absorb shock, but you could put those on any aluminum bike and still have a pretty stiff ride over long distance vs say a frame made out of carbon like my Kestrel.
By looking at the bike I see the top tube appears thiner than most aluminum bikes I have riden and the down tube having that aero design also seems like it might dissipate some road shock vs having a straight down tube.
Yes, the P3 is very comfortable. I used to ride a cannondale…very stiff, harsh ride compared to a P3. The one design feature that I think makes it comfortable is that the seat tube doesn’t come straight down to the bottom bracket. With the curved rear wheel cutout it kind of acts like a “shock absorber”. I also think that by not having big “beefy tubes” it lets the frame be more flexable to absorb more of the shock. Usually this translates into a bike that is not as ridged for climbing or out of the saddle “hammering”; but amazingly the P3 is great when climbing and has a stiff bottom bracket.
To me the P3 is a perfect design and great all round bike…I guess that why there are so many out there.
When I am racing all comfort issues for me come down to fit issues and how bad my quads are burning. My Cervelo is comfortable during races because it fits me so well and is so freaking fast that I can ride at a high speed with less muscular discomfort than on my other bikes. My Cervelo is uncomfortable for long training rides because my forward and low TT position puts my torso parallel to the ground. My body is fine in this position but it is hard to look around so I don’t like riding on it every day.
I think the concept of a frame being comfortable is a myth. If your bike fits you well and you have reasonable sized tires and a good saddle you will be comfortable. The differences between frames are minor and your body will adapt to any differences.
-Marc
I believe one of the things they have done is move the point where the seat stays connect to the seat post farther down. Instead of connecting right at the top of the seat post they are several inches down. I read somewhere, sometime (I like to be specific on my references) that this helps reduce vibration.
Aluminum is actually not a stiff material (read on before you blast away at that comment). It is only stiff when it is formed into the oversized tubes like cannondale and klein (my road bike) do. Imagine if you were to build a bike out of huge oversized steel tubes.
I do not build frames, but making a bike that is vertically compliant (comfortable, shock absorbing), while at the same time horizontally stiff is the part of the magic that good frame builders can work. That is where the majority of your confortable ride comes from.
btw, a carbon seatpost will do nothign in regards to absorbing shock. Carbon is used in seatposts to save weight and look cool.
"What in the design attributes the to the great ride people rave about "
Another important factor is how well the bike fits. A bike that is too small/large will not be comfortable.
As for the frame material, I was shocked to find my Giant TCR-1 and Cervelo P2K seems to be as comfortable as my steel bike on regular riding. Mind you, if I was doing a cross country ride, I’d probably take the steel bike for such a long distance.
I guess it just depends on who you talk to. I know a couple of guys with P3’s that have owned a fair number of bikes and say the P3 is way harsher and handles worse than any other bike they have had. But they still think it’s fast and they are usually on it come race day.
The fact is that there isn’t any significant vertical compliance in any double diamond bike frame. A carbon frame may attenuate some of the vibration, but that’s not the same thing as vertical compliance.
What are you buddies smoking?
Would recommend folks read Robert Millar’s review of the P3 in Pro Cycling (or was it Cycle Sport?) – he was a climber not a TT’er of course, but even he raved about how comfortable the P3 was. It was something that totally surprised him, and his reviews were known for being always very blunt, considered, and often critical. But he didn’t have a negative word to say about the P3.
I ride the 2000 version “stock”, and raced the final 9 miles of our state championship race this year on a totally flat front tubular – despite that, the ride was incredibly good. Go figure. Maybe they know what they’re doing, eh?
Sorry – that was to john, and should have read “What are your buddies smoking?”
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I guess it just depends on who you talk to. I know a couple of guys with P3’s that have owned a fair number of bikes and say the P3 is way harsher and handles worse than any other bike they have had.
WADR, the only folks I have heard this from are when they have mismatched a fork w/ the wrong rake or something like that.
“Harsh” is obviously subjective and changes w/ tires, seat, etc. Mine is more comfortable than my Softride was…I don’t know how they do it but it is true.
On handling either their fit was wrong, or they mismatched the fork (or some other equipment). I’ve had mine for three years and on the aero bars (the way it was meant to be ridden) it handles exactly the way I would want and expect. Now, this isn’t the bike I ride in crits, but that’s not what it was made for.
wilson wrote:
btw, a carbon seatpost will do nothign in regards to absorbing shock. Carbon is used in seatposts to save >weight and look cool.
That is not entirely true, Wilson. If you have a carbon post with less than about 10cm exposed, then you are probably correct. But I guarantee you would feel the difference 9as opposed to a decent aluminum post like the Ritchey WCS) on a bike like my road bike that has about 17cm exposed. My Alien poston my Saber did nothing. It had only about 9.5cm exposed. The Easton CT2 on my Specialized compact frame makes a noticeable difference. The design of the post also contributes something to that equation.
On handling either their fit was wrong, or they mismatched the fork (or some other equipment).
I seem to remember someone (Gerard, maybe) saying that the Ouzo Aero was not a good match for this bike because it was only avaiable in a 40mm rake, and the bike was designed for a fork with a 43mm rake. This rake mismatch would make the bike feel less stable. Interestingly enough, I see a lot of people “upgrading” P3’s to the Ouzo Aero (including pic’s I’ve seen of Steve Larsen). This could conceivably account for poor handling. Just my $0.02-worth. (acually worth less than $0.02, since I don’t actually own a P3 yet)
Both the Ouzo Pro and the Ouzo Pro Aero are available in 43mm. rake.
Both the Ouzo Pro and the Ouzo Pro Aero are available in 43mm. rake.
I did a search of the forum for the words “P3 ouzo aero” and found the thread that I had in mind. It’s titled “Fork suggestions for P3”, though the search hits come up under “re: IMPORTANT”. According to that thread, the Reynolds Composites website is incorrect (or at least it was as of early May). The site shows that the Ouzo Aero is offered in 40mm and 43mm, but the 43mm had not been produced yet as of that time. Art Franke indicated that he had actually spoken with Reynolds and they confirmed that all the forks sold to date had all been 40mm. It’s this rake mismatch (40mm Ouzo Aero vs 43mm Chord) that I was referring to.
Shows what happens when you trust manufacturers websites! 
I have the 40mm. Ouzo Pro on my road bike and a 43mm. Ouzo Pro Aero on my tri bike. The Ouzo Pro Aero appears to be the better choice for P3 owners.
Colorado Cyclist is offering Ouzo Pro’s with a 43mm. rake, I wonder what that’s all about.
I had a 1999 Harley-Davidson Fatboy. I loved it. A Fatboy is in Harley’s Softail family where the engines are mounted directly to the frame, as opposed to other lines like the Dynas or Road Kings etc. where the engines are mounted on floating mounts isolating the engine vibration from the frame, and more imporantly, the rider. People always asked me how I could stand the vibration and I said “what vibration?” I LOVED the feel of a rigid-mounted engine. That is until 2000 when Harley came out with their counterbalanced engine for the Softails. The counterbalancers eliminated most of the engine vibration making for a much more comfortable ride. I rode one and the rest is history. I bought a 2000, and I couldn’t imagine ever riding another bike.
I had a Cervelo P3. I loved it. People asked me what it was like to ride such a stiff aluminum bike and how I could stand the vibration and I said “what vibration?” That is until I rode a Kestrel KM40 and the rest is history. I bought it, and couldn’t imagine ever riding another bike.
Same story, second verse.
“Comfort” is relative.
I had a Cervelo P3. I loved it. People asked me what it was like to ride such a stiff aluminum bike and how I could stand the vibration and I said “what vibration?” That is until I rode a Kestrel KM40 and the rest is history. I bought it, and couldn’t imagine ever riding another bike.
“Comfort” is relative.<<
Definitely true! My final two choices came down to Cervelo and Kestrel and it was no contest. The Kestrel was NOT comfortable for me. The ride difference was so great that it was a no-brainer on which bike to buy. Opinions are all well and good, but…