Cellular Hydration

well i was reading chris mccormack book and he explains about “cellular” hydration, which is better and deeper compared to normal blood hydration (just drinking plenty of fluids and pissing a lot).

cellular hydration would be fueling the cells with water, and have better reserves of fluids specially for hot races such as kona (macca’s problem). how to hydrate the cells? well, as the body isn’t stupid, cells only let the water in if it comes with the proper amount of sodium/calcium/potassium/magnesium.

would anybody comment about this statement as true or false? if so, what amount of electrolites?

back in the '90s people used to try to ‘super hydrate’ with glycerol - might be worth doing some research on that. not sure what ever really became of it.

-mike

my cell phone doesn’t work so well when soaked in water
.

That sounds like bull to me. There is far too much unfounded nonsense talked about hydration. In reality it’s pretty simple, drink enough so that your pee is light coloured. Unless you’re ill, you’ll be hydrated. The body is pretty good at sorting out it’s hydration requirements. Waterlogged by Noakes is a good reference book if you’re interested in learning something. He’s a respected doctor and researcher IIRC. Not sure what Macca’s quals are in the subject?

I think you’re reading his info wrong.

I can’t recall exactly, but I don’t remember him making any claims like that. What I think he’s saying is that the body controls water flows largely by salt movement, which is true. (It’s why your fingers get all raisinlike when you go into a high-salt soapy bathwater - all the water from your cells starts moving into the salty/soapy bathware to dilute the electrolytes there so everything can get back to equilibrium.)

But you have no control over how your body moves salt between cells. You can just provide it with enough salt so it can work with (and that’s usually not that much), plenty of water to move around (much more important), and let it do its thing.

Drinking electrolyte sport drinks does NOT help you more efficiently move water to where it’s needed in your body. Contrary to what the millions and millions of advertising dollars would love for you to believe. (That and the ‘Gatorade Research Institute’.)

Lighttheir

+1

I wish more people would know about Watterlogged and Tim Noakes. You can’t control the movement of water in your body. It is simply a process of Osmosis. Many of us over salt. If you get into Waterlogged you will learn more about it and the roles of ADH and Aldosterone. Highly recommend before you drop more $$$ on sports drinks… :slight_smile:

Now Macca that is a different story. He openly admits he tried supplementing with certain minerals and electrolytes. He even makes reference to speaking with Bodybuilders on cellular hydration they use to keep muscles looking “full”. Is there truth to this… Yes, absolutely. But remember Macca was putting in month long training camps in Kona heat where he was sweating and depleting his body over and over again. Might him and other pros who are putting in high volume gain an advantage from supplementing then? Who knows?

My advice - question everything. There is so much “bro science” out there. You need to find what works for you!

back in the '90s people used to try to ‘super hydrate’ with glycerol - might be worth doing some research on that. not sure what ever really became of it.

-mike

Glycerol is banned by WADA (Maybe 2 years ago?). Plasma Volume Expanders were / can be used as masking agents.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-answers/2014-prohibited-list#node-358

  1. CAN I TEST POSITIVE FOR INGESTING GLYCEROL FOUND IN FOODSTUFFS AND TOILETRIES?UP
    Glycerol is prohibited as a plasma expander. The consumption of quantities of glycerol far beyond those commonly found in e.g. foods, beverages, personal care products, medicinal tablets tuffs, cough syrup is required to produce an Adverse Analytical Finding. Therefore, its prohibition is not intended to prevent the ingestion of this substance in the amounts commonly found in foodstuffs and toiletries, as such small quantities will not cause an athlete to test positive for this Prohibited Substance.

The above poster is employed by Boulder Center for Sports Medicine. However, statements made are not on behalf of BCSM nor reflective of BCSM in any manner. Unless they are good statements, then they count

I love this!!! It is so spot on!!! I’ve read it prob 10 times over the last several months and it always cracks me up:)

The cells in your body has a phospholipid bilayer which allows water to move freely from outside to inside or vise versa. This membrane does not freely allow sodium or potassium to cross through (that requires energy in the sodium potassium pump). Due to osmosis water will move from higher concentration to lower concentration to reach equilibrium between the extracellular fluid and intracellular fluid. So if you eat a bunch of salt without any water the increased sodium outside your cells will cause water to more from inside to outside your cells to try and equalize the osmolarity. Conversely, if you load way up on water your cells can swell because the excess water outside the cells will enter into the cell to reach a stable balance.

It can get a bit more complicated with different types of cells such as skeletal muscle cells and activity, in this situation sodium, potassium, and calcium all play essential roles in moving in and outside of cells quickly to create the action potentials (actual contraction of the muscles). Then we can digress into different energy systems and the various demands etc, but the point is the body is very good at maintaining chemical equilibrium at the cellular level.

Also your Renal system (kidneys) can significantly alter your fluid levels in the blood plasma through different hormones to help maintain that proper equilibrium. This is mostly related to maintaining proper blood pressure/osmolarity/pH, but again will influence the amount of fluids the body retains. As another poster pointed out hormones like ADH (Vasopressin), aldosterone, renin-angiotensin, and ANP (Atrial naturiuretic peptide) all significantly alter the bodies fluid levels to maintain very tight tolerances.

My takeaway is our bodies are very good at maintaining equilibrium assuming i do not do something stupid, like not drink at all during workouts or drink 40oz an hour and nothing else. The “nice” think about true dehydration is it will set on quickly and you will know it, when you are truly dehydrated the effects are unmistakable. I had the state road race championships this year and it was warmer than normal (90 by 11am) and i missed the feed at mile 40 of 80 miles, i just thought i would be fine not having any fluids the last 35 miles. I started to notice around mile 70 i stopped sweating, my arms looked really small, skin just looked different, and started to cramp everywhere, by mile 75 i could not move any muscle without it cramping. Barely made in back and it took around 4-5 hours to really recover and start to feel normal.

Hyponatremia (very low sodium levels caused most often by drinking lots of water) is a very serious condition that is not as easy to detect as dehydration. If you have time try and read some medical articles on this, most are fairly “easy” to understand and very enlightening. Lot’s of medical cases related to endurance athletes who drink so much water and take in no additional sodium with pretty serious medical consequences. The most common end game to this is serious brain swelling leading to a coma or death.

i coach athletes who before they came to me for coaching, they drunk every day 3-4 liters water from pet bottles, for me this water is dead. i let this athlete then test their blood hematocrit value, often I have seen values over 48-50%, which indicates a very dehydrated state! I can not prove it, but healthy water from a source with a little salt (himalaya) and a little orange juice travels better to the body …and changes hematocrit values impressively

Why on earth would up you use hematocrit to assess hydration levels?
I understand the appeal but there are much easier ways that will have less variables.

ok…besides the color of the urin, what do you suggest? could you name some easier ways do determine hydration levels? many thanx roy

ok…besides the color of the urin, what do you suggest? could you name some easier ways do determine hydration levels? many thanx roy

Plasma Osmolality… oh wait. :wink:

The cells in your body has a phospholipid bilayer which allows water to move freely from outside to inside or vise versa. This membrane does not freely allow sodium or potassium to cross through (that requires energy in the sodium potassium pump). Due to osmosis water will move from higher concentration to lower concentration to reach equilibrium between the extracellular fluid and intracellular fluid. So if you eat a bunch of salt without any water the increased sodium outside your cells will cause water to more from inside to outside your cells to try and equalize the osmolarity. Conversely, if you load way up on water your cells can swell because the excess water outside the cells will enter into the cell to reach a stable balance.

It can get a bit more complicated with different types of cells such as skeletal muscle cells and activity, in this situation sodium, potassium, and calcium all play essential roles in moving in and outside of cells quickly to create the action potentials (actual contraction of the muscles). Then we can digress into different energy systems and the various demands etc, but the point is the body is very good at maintaining chemical equilibrium at the cellular level.

Also your Renal system (kidneys) can significantly alter your fluid levels in the blood plasma through different hormones to help maintain that proper equilibrium. This is mostly related to maintaining proper blood pressure/osmolarity/pH, but again will influence the amount of fluids the body retains. As another poster pointed out hormones like ADH (Vasopressin), aldosterone, renin-angiotensin, and ANP (Atrial naturiuretic peptide) all significantly alter the bodies fluid levels to maintain very tight tolerances.

My takeaway is our bodies are very good at maintaining equilibrium assuming i do not do something stupid, like not drink at all during workouts or drink 40oz an hour and nothing else. The “nice” think about true dehydration is it will set on quickly and you will know it, when you are truly dehydrated the effects are unmistakable. I had the state road race championships this year and it was warmer than normal (90 by 11am) and i missed the feed at mile 40 of 80 miles, i just thought i would be fine not having any fluids the last 35 miles. I started to notice around mile 70 i stopped sweating, my arms looked really small, skin just looked different, and started to cramp everywhere, by mile 75 i could not move any muscle without it cramping. Barely made in back and it took around 4-5 hours to really recover and start to feel normal.

Hyponatremia (very low sodium levels caused most often by drinking lots of water) is a very serious condition that is not as easy to detect as dehydration. If you have time try and read some medical articles on this, most are fairly “easy” to understand and very enlightening. Lot’s of medical cases related to endurance athletes who drink so much water and take in no additional sodium with pretty serious medical consequences. The most common end game to this is serious brain swelling leading to a coma or death.

The body is great at maintaining balance… in the long-ish term.
But, those systems cannot react quickly enough to short-term stimulus. This is why the pre-hydration products work (from Skratch, Osmo, etc) to increase plasma volume.

The above poster is employed by Boulder Center for Sports Medicine. However, statements made are not on behalf of BCSM nor reflective of BCSM in any manner. Unless they are good statements, then they count

I love this!!! It is so spot on!!! I’ve read it prob 10 times over the last several months and it always cracks me up:)

Thanks.
I try to keep it on the up & up (like this thread), but sometimes I get a little rambunctious.

It’s why your fingers get all raisinlike when you go into a high-salt soapy bathwater - all the water from your cells starts moving into the salty/soapy bathware to dilute the electrolytes there so everything can get back to equilibrium.

Agreed - except for the part above…

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-fingers-wrinkle-in/

The cells in your body has a phospholipid bilayer which allows water to move freely from outside to inside or vise versa. This membrane does not freely allow sodium or potassium to cross through (that requires energy in the sodium potassium pump). Due to osmosis water will move from higher concentration to lower concentration to reach equilibrium between the extracellular fluid and intracellular fluid. So if you eat a bunch of salt without any water the increased sodium outside your cells will cause water to more from inside to outside your cells to try and equalize the osmolarity. Conversely, if you load way up on water your cells can swell because the excess water outside the cells will enter into the cell to reach a stable balance.

It can get a bit more complicated with different types of cells such as skeletal muscle cells and activity, in this situation sodium, potassium, and calcium all play essential roles in moving in and outside of cells quickly to create the action potentials (actual contraction of the muscles). Then we can digress into different energy systems and the various demands etc, but the point is the body is very good at maintaining chemical equilibrium at the cellular level.

Also your Renal system (kidneys) can significantly alter your fluid levels in the blood plasma through different hormones to help maintain that proper equilibrium. This is mostly related to maintaining proper blood pressure/osmolarity/pH, but again will influence the amount of fluids the body retains. As another poster pointed out hormones like ADH (Vasopressin), aldosterone, renin-angiotensin, and ANP (Atrial naturiuretic peptide) all significantly alter the bodies fluid levels to maintain very tight tolerances.

My takeaway is our bodies are very good at maintaining equilibrium assuming i do not do something stupid, like not drink at all during workouts or drink 40oz an hour and nothing else. The “nice” think about true dehydration is it will set on quickly and you will know it, when you are truly dehydrated the effects are unmistakable. I had the state road race championships this year and it was warmer than normal (90 by 11am) and i missed the feed at mile 40 of 80 miles, i just thought i would be fine not having any fluids the last 35 miles. I started to notice around mile 70 i stopped sweating, my arms looked really small, skin just looked different, and started to cramp everywhere, by mile 75 i could not move any muscle without it cramping. Barely made in back and it took around 4-5 hours to really recover and start to feel normal.

Hyponatremia (very low sodium levels caused most often by drinking lots of water) is a very serious condition that is not as easy to detect as dehydration. If you have time try and read some medical articles on this, most are fairly “easy” to understand and very enlightening. Lot’s of medical cases related to endurance athletes who drink so much water and take in no additional sodium with pretty serious medical consequences. The most common end game to this is serious brain swelling leading to a coma or death.

The body is great at maintaining balance… in the long-ish term.
But, those systems cannot react quickly enough to short-term stimulus. This is why the pre-hydration products work (from Skratch, Osmo, etc) to increase plasma volume.

Agree. Pre-Hydration/ hyperhydration have been around for quite a while and work if done properly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18838842

“Pre-exercise hyperhydration significantly increased time to exhaustion and peak power output, compared with pre-exercise euhydration. We conclude that pre-exercise hyperhydration improves endurance capacity and peak power output and decreases heart rate and thirst sensation”

my cell phone doesn’t work so well when soaked in water

I looked for the “Like” button.

back in the '90s people used to try to ‘super hydrate’ with glycerol - might be worth doing some research on that. not sure what ever really became of it.

-mike

Glycerol is banned by WADA (Maybe 2 years ago?). Plasma Volume Expanders were / can be used as masking agents.

amazing - i started racing tri seriously as a teenager in the mid-90s, and you could go to GNC and buy a big ol’ bottle of glycerol (and another one of choline!) and just have at it.

i also remember once going there to buy some electrolyte crystals once - just wanted something simple, sugary, maybe orange-flavoured to bike with. found a decent candidate and took it to the till, and the woman said, “are you going to get blood tested?” “uh. . . why?” (bearing in mind i’m something like 16 years old.)

“because you’ll test positive for ephedrine if you drink this stuff.”

ah, to be back in the wild west. . .

-mike