“I look over my shoulder and hear her yelling at me from her car as she pulled up and then turned in front of me on the road, cutting me off from forward progress.”
The above comes from the dog thread. But this particular phrase caught my eye.
What this woman did was a felony. People who do things like this must be reported, and the person to whom you report it to MUST take this VERY seriously.
this happened to us a month ago. i took it very seriously, and made myself evident to the employer of this person, who used his company vehicle to “teach us a lesson.” he no longer has a job. he’s lucky nothing more happened to him, as could potentially have been prosecuted for a variety of felonies.
i would rather have seen this woman sweat it out in front of cops asking very pressing questions.
Agree 100%. Vehicle and bikes do not mix. Pressing charges and sending a strong message is what needs to be done. I have actually been hassled by COPS for riding within my legal right along a few of the backroads around here. And thats the police, sheez! Imagine the ignorance of many of the locals!
I’ve found it helps to keep a copy or two of the bike related sections on the vehicle code wrapped in a plastic baggie in my camelbak. I hand them out whenever anyone challenges my road rights. (This happens at lights or stop signs when you catch up to someone who just yelled at you to “Get off the Road!” or when someone stops to harrass you.) I like to think that people are only ignorant about the laws relating to cycling. Here’s a link for the laws in Michigan: http://www.lmb.org/michcode.htm
“I have actually been hassled by COPS for riding within my legal right”
i’ve been hassled by cops as well. and i treat them exactly like everyone else, i report them. this happened to a group of us who regularly ride on the backroads of north san diego county. a wayward deputy sherrif. so i pressed the issue with the sherrif in charge of the rural substation out of which the deputy is dispatched, and followed the matter through to its conclusion.
were we now live, monty calls this the bermuda triangle for government employees, as a fire captain and forest service employee have been demoted and fired, respectively, within the past 6 weeks for failing to keep us safe out here (only one issue bike related). i just won’t tolerate roads unsafe for bikers.
I’ve had a similar incident. Local Park Rangers who think they are gods in their jurisdiction get on my case about riding on public roads.
One day a while back I was riding after morning rush hour, and to be fair, I had a terrible cold and sinus infection but was riding anyway and felt miserable, but one of these local rangers pulls up behind me and turns on his lights. I think he’s joking but he’s not. He tells me I’m riding too close to the middle of the road - while I know I’m no more than 12 inches from the curb.
I went off on him, with total disregard for being arrested or worse. (I was feeling lousy anyway). Said its bad enough that drivers curse at us, taunt us, and throw things at us without the cops doing the same thing. I cited as best I could the laws from memory and the cop said I was wrong wrong wrong. Told him to produce evidence, and he could not. He said he was going to ticket me. I said “No you’re not. You’re either going to arrest me right now or let me go. At the very least we’re going to have a chat with your boss to let him know you don’t know the laws your charged with enforcing. I want your name and badge number and I’ll give you my info as well. If you don’t choose to arrest me now be prepared to talk with me and an attorney later.”
He let me go and maybe 10 miles later pulled me over again, this time much more gently by just driving up and said “I have an apology to make to you”.
Hi Slowman: I started the dog thread and just wanted to let you in on my thinking, as to why I didn’t press the issue. You may or may not agree, but that’s ok. I found in the dog thread (my first posting on this forum) that there was a wide variety of responses.
This lady went off in such as crazy way that I was never convinced that she wouldn’t hunt me down and make my life hell. I live in a small town (20k people) and am a professional (forensic psychologist) who is very visible. I did make a report to the sheriff’s department (where I am a consultant) and they would have talked to her or pressed charges, whichever I wanted. I did make a formal report and the deputy I spoke with took down her license number (which I had the sense to recall). He also said that if she (the aggressor) came in to make a complaint about me (I’m not sure how she could have as she didn’t have my name and there was no way to identify me at the time of the incident), he would set her straight and inform her that IL law says you have to keep your dogs under control at all times and that assault with a motor vehicle charges would cool her jets. OK. In a small town you aren’t very anonymous. Maybe I chickened out, but I don’t need that kind of complication in my life. If there’s another incident, at least there is my report. I am probably passing the buck by not taking a stand. I find it easier to ride the extra four miles to avoid that section than have someone who may be a true maniac harrassing me. Some people have the attitude: I don’t get mad; I get even. At least the authorities know who she is. My professional experience is that it is better to avoid these folks who are true “loose cannons”. I do respect those who take the stand and fight violence with the law. To each their own.
Fat chance you’d get anywhere in Florida. You’d think Jeb Bush was giving out a million dollars to every driver that kills a biker here. I stopped biking on the roads exactly because people are inattentive-more often than vicious-and have cut me off numerous times. The last guy who hit me was a retired champion mountain bike racer who must have apologized 100 times in the 10 minutes it took for the cops to come. But, he was reaching for his garage door opener and not watching what he was doing. We need to take cars back 50 years when driving required our full time and attention or we need to put cars on auto pilot so we have no input. Just press the button and go. Humans are too stupid to drive cars. And triathletes are no exception. You should see them leaving Clermont after a race. You’d think it was Daytona…
I have been lucky over the years in not having that many run-ins with motorists. A couple of times when the motorist has been completely over-the-top or has actually done something illegal, I have remembered the licesence plate number and the model/colour of the car and then reported the incident to the police when I got home.
In both incidents, I loved the rather stunned look on the motorists face when I told them that I had their license number and would be reporting them. It’s as if they could not figure this out and that they thought they were completely anonymous. Well . . duh!!
In both cases, the police said that they would contact the indvidual, and while they could not press charges, they would give the drivers a warning. I hope that this had some impact.
it’s your incident, and i respect your decision to treat it in the way that seemed best at the time.
i guess i like the middle option, having the cops talk to her, not arrest her. in your profession i suppose you find that, in general, behavioral trends don’t correct themselves. perhaps the threat of jail might keep this woman from doing this to the next rider down the road. it would be sad if all cyclists in your town were made to avoid a good cycling road simply because this woman was allowed to use her vehicle as a weapon.
but that’s hindsight, and maybe the process of discussing it makes us all work through the ways we want to deal with the issue when it occurs.
Come on, Robert. It seems like you and several others who post on this site can’t pass up a chance to turn any thread into a political diatribe against one of the Bushes. Well, I have lived in Florida for 24 years, most of that time under Democrat governors, and Florida has always had a high bicycle mortality rate. It did not just happen in the last 5 years, so grow up and get off it. There is some other systemic issue there causing this. Don’t know what it is, but saying Jeb Bush is paying bounties for cyclist’s scalps doesn’t help anything.
And JLB, I understand your concerns about high vis/small town, and I don’t blame you for backing down. But, your leadership on this could have helped make things better for other cyclists. But then again, it could have just created a polarizing situation in your town. I guess it is easy for people to dislike us as we ride around in our flashy lycra clothes on our $3,000 bikes and slow down traffic. Funny, but I have driven tractors and combines on the roads with long lines of cars behind me, and never gotten anything but a smile and a wave when they pass.
Quite a number of my friends here in Dearborn serve with Dearborn’s finest, The Dearborn Police. As a result, cyclists in Dearborn enjoy a reasonably good repoire’ with the local constables. One comment an officer made to me recently caught my attention and support Dan’s thesis that a car is a weapon: Officer K. had made a traffic stop and had reason to believe the party had a stolen vehicle and outstanding warrants (not unlike the woman involved in the accident that killed my best friend, Michael R. Rabe, on May 2nd of this year: She had been drinking, using Marijuana and had outstanding warrants and a suspended license). When he exited his police car to administer the stop he drew his sidearm. I asked him “You drew your weapon for a traffic stop? That seems excessive, you hadn’t established the potential suspect even had a weapon.” Officer K. said, “He had a 2,000 lb. weapon. In the academy we are told a car is a weapon. He could have killed me by backing over me, and that has happened a number of times…” Point is- A car is a weapon for someone with a willful intent to inflict harm. In the legal context, it should be treated as such by law enforcement.
"In both cases, the police said that they would contact the indvidual, and while they could not press charges, they would give the drivers a warning. I hope that this had some impact.
I think it’s great that you reported these people. However, what irks me is that the police “could not press charges.” It doesn’t seem to me to be much of a deterrent if the police can’t do anything but issue a warning.
I haven’t done too much training on the roads because I have a nice 20 mile greenbelt with a bike/run path right outside my house, so I haven’t encountered anything like you have. However, I’m not sure I’d be satisfied by a simple warning, especially if it’s happened to me more than a few times.
Isn’t there any more severe legal action you can take when something like this happens? Why would any of the idiots we’re talking about change their behavior if they know they’ll only get off with a warning? I suppose if you’re on a group ride you have some witnesses, but what about those of us who train alone?
It was explained to me that without witnesses it’s hard to press charges.
In both incidents that Iwas involved in, the behaviour of the motorist was so irrational that I figured he likly had some type of criminal record or a record of similar complaints. Hopefully the police would be able to string this together and put some heat on him again.
“You’d think Jeb Bush was giving out a million dollars to every motorist who killed a biker here in Florida.”
Read it again (even looked up subjunctive in the dictionary), my comment stands. Why even bring up the name if you weren’t trying to disparage the person? Why not just say “…the State of Florida…”? When you personalize the blame for a problem, and I agree based on the raw statistics there is a problem in Florida with bicyclist mortality, you really weaken your case because then is just appears to be a rant.
Your word leadership is probably right. If I have a regret, I suppose that is some of it. “If not me then who comes to mind.” However, this aggressor was so over the top from the get-go and she escalated so fast, that there was something there that made me think that this is something more than just a person I caught on a bad day and p-o’d her about her dogs. With these types, you just don’t know how far they might take it. But, have I endangered other riders by not taking a stand? That one bothers me.
You made the call based on your feelings and judgement at the time. I do not question that–this is definitely one of those situations that can go from bad to worse. Hope your rides this weekend go well!
I can’t remember the jurisdictions but there have been several convictions on assault with a deadly weapon on motorist/cyclist and pedestrian incidents. I consider it no different from someone screaming at you with a gun to your head.
Perhaps pointing out to the cops that they could abuse civil forfeiture laws for those cases just like they do for grabbing loot in drug cases would generate more interest in pressing charges (they can drop charges and still keep the loot).
It’s not surprising but still sickening seeing all the cop stories. I’ve had an incident with a cop too. I was surprised how pissed off I got over it. It certainly made me have more understanding for gangsta rap lyrics.
“I look over my shoulder and hear her yelling at me from her car as she pulled up and then turned in front of me on the road, cutting me off from forward progress.”
The above comes from the dog thread. But this particular phrase caught my eye.
What this woman did was a felony. People who do things like this must be reported, and the person to whom you report it to MUST take this VERY seriously.
this happened to us a month ago. i took it very seriously, and made myself evident to the employer of this person, who used his company vehicle to “teach us a lesson.” he no longer has a job. he’s lucky nothing more happened to him, as could potentially have been prosecuted for a variety of felonies.
i would rather have seen this woman sweat it out in front of cops asking very pressing questions.
Even if the threat does not rise to the level of felonious nature, then these situations often amount to tortious assault and your remedy is in civil court. Make sure to note the license plate and take pix if possible, and obtain contact info of neutral 3rd party witnesses.