Careers-Who knew right away?

The Coffee Shop
21

Thanks for all the replies guys. At least there’s others out there like me. I guess the whole doom and gloom of the economy(and more news of tuition going up b/c of decreased federal funding) is giving me the jitters. I’m just going to ride out this term and see how things goes. I have some more hours with the large animal vets and I’ll take the opportunity to talk with the owners of that practice(FYI: I work at a small animal hospital so things are a tad different)

Kittykat: I wouldn’t have the same duties as a vet if I purchased a practice. I’ll either stick to a managerial position or keep being a CVT/owner. I would need another vet to purchase/start a practice as part of this state’s law.

22

Kittykat: I wouldn’t have the same duties as a vet if I purchased a practice. I’ll either stick to a managerial position or keep being a CVT/owner. I would need another vet to purchase/start a practice as part of this state’s law.

yes, i know that. and i’m telling you that is expensive. as a business owner, i’m saying that out of experience.

23

~work is a 4 letter word; look outside of career for gratification and you will be much happier for it.

AMEN! I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I go to work because I get PAID to be there. What I do is intersting to me, but it isn’t what I’d be doing if I didn’ t have to work. I wanted to be an archaeologist…a pipe dream. The path of least resistance was something I was good at (Computers) even if it didn’t seems as interesting. Now, I’ll be retired at 55…and I can go dig in the dirt somewhere for fun.

24

do you know how much it costs to buy into a buy practice? deep into 6 figures at least. you already have 100k in student loans, who is going to loan you 500k to buy into a practice when you have a history of jumping around from one thing to the next?

owning a practice has its perks, but you also have to deal with annoying clients who owe you money or want to sing their sob story for you about why their animal should be treated in exchange for cookies. when my sister and her husband bought a practice (he’s a vet) it took years to get it off the ground and they had to live in a shabby apartment above the clinic that smelled like wet dog. at any given time, he’s owed 100k in unpaid vet bills.

finish your undergrad. even if you don’t use the material you have learned, at least you can put that you’ve finished it and then think about what to do next.

25

I speculate based on your essay that you could probably use more experience in the management/ownership side of the equation before purchasing. Though I could be wrong.

My advice is don’t worry about student debt. Get the DVM. Work as a vet. Then get an MBA through night school or similar. Then buy the practice. You may not “use” the MBA all that much, but when you’re trying to secure the capital necessary for purchase, you needs those letters to convince people you know the what you’re doing.

Yes, you’ll end up $100K+ of debt, but it’s smart debt. You’re investing in yourself for the rest of your working life. $100K sounds scary when you’re young, but really it’s pocket change when you compare it to your lifetime earning potential. Not to mention the intangibles like eventually being your own boss.

Education almost always wins, particularly in a stable medical practice like you describe.

26

~when you think you have your career figured out, that’s when you don’t.
~work is a 4 letter word; look outside of career for gratification and you will be much happier for it.
~people who have their identity wrapped up in career are either miserable, or about to become miserable.
~regardless of age, nobody knows what they want to be when they grow up. at some point, everybody has what i call a “career crisis” and wants to make a change,

Seriously? That’s depressing.

I fail all four of those. I knew what I wanted to do from day one. Every two weeks when I get my paycheck I always experience a moment of shock that someone wants to give me money for what I do. The work is continually rewarding and challenging. The people I work with are smart and motivated. I get enough time and money to train 20 hours a week.

Not trying to gloat, just not sure you want to pre-condition people to accept a life of “quiet desparation.” There are wonderful careers out there. Not for everyone, but they’re out there.

27

Grew up wanting to be a vet, but then didn’t like thinking that the horses die. (And I did not want to be a dog/cat vet!) I also wanted to be a fashion designer.

Started getting a general business degree with fashion merchandising emphasis, but loved sports so much and liked medicine (and worked in the respiratory therapy department at the hospital in college). Didn’t want to go to medical school, so I ended up getting a B.S. in Exercise Science and an M.S. in Exercise Physiology, plus was a Certified Athletic Trainer. Worked as a trainer for a few years but didn’t like working with non-athletic people (workers’ comp patients who liked getting paid to sit home and drink beer). Moved to the corporate field and worked at a bank and then at the law firm.

clm

28

My story:

Since junior high I wanted to be a sports writer. While I was a mediocre athlete, no, it wasn’t the last resort for staying close to the sports I loved. I loved to write and sport interested me more than politics, or business, or medicine. Teachers told me from elementary school that I should develop my writing ability, and in junior high I learned where the UofMichigan and Detroit Red Wings stories in the Battle Creek Enquirer came from. That was going to be me. And then we moved to Minnesota and I discovered Patrick Reusse and Dan Barreiro. I digress. Anyway…

Through high school I wrote up a storm. Edited the student paper, did some work with a local radio station. I headed off to Syracuse University and studied journalism at one of the best J-schools in the country. Anybody asked, I was going to be a sports writer. Move up the ladder. Cover preps, then colleges, then pros, then write columns and fend off death threats. However, signs popped up every now and again that there was more to life than work. Few people live their work like journalists, and I was prepared for that. Didn’t bother me at all. Then again, I thought about majoring in music (jazz director said music will always be there for you, but if you have a Ph.D. in performance and still suck, you won’t get any gigs) or philosophy (while working at the student paper and getting internships, parents said no) or something else.

Nope. Forged ahead. Got my newspaper and psychology degrees with a 2.2, effectively making the decision for me regarding grad school. Worked at papers out in the sticks and a couple on the fringes of metro areas. Never really moved up the ladder. Won a handful of state awards and one national award. But I loved working at newspapers and couldn’t imagine doing anything else.

Meanwhile, I dated a girl with a Bachelors in world history and a Masters in arts administration, a girl who was doing nothing related to those, which absolutely blew my mind. I spent a lot of our two years together playing shrink and career counselor. This experience was an eye-opener for a lot of reasons, most notably being close to someone who had no clue what she wanted to do. She said college was a place to grow and experience things and do all sorts of other lofty things. I said college is where you go to learn to make a living. She countered with, “If you want to do that go to tech school.” That’s it.

Suddenly it all made sense. Journalism is not a profession, it’s a trade. College was an unbelievable waste of time for me because I already knew what I wanted to do but I had to sit in this damned holding pen for four years (thankfully it took that long and not longer) and take stupid biology and sociology while the world kept spinning. I should have followed through on my threat to major in philosophy while getting internships and such. My Syracuse journalism degree opened some doors for me, to be sure, but at what cost? My cynicism about careers, that’s what the cost was.

This probably doesn’t help you at all, Izzy. I’m no longer in newspapers but I’m still in the storytelling business. I don’t use anything I learned in the classroom, another sore spot in my feelings about college. I just wish I could have been rewarded for my foresight with less time in the classroom, or maybe my desired moves up the ladder. All this said, I’m in the right place right now. I’m exactly where I should be, and I don’t regret anything I did up to now. The key for me was finding something I loved early on, then getting in a position to get paid to do it. It’s hard for me to relate to anyone who hasn’t figured it out yet (part of the reason I don’t want to have kids), so all I can do is wish you the best of luck. It seems like you already have the answers for yourself, so just keep doing what you’re doing and things will become clear. Be in the moment. Trust in the zen. or something. :slight_smile:

29

no, it’s not depressing at all, rather it is reality.

and for someone to be 100% thrilled and pumped up about their career in any long term sense (ie, years and years and years) is the absolute exception, not the rule (based on my 10 years of executive recruiting experience).

it is possible to strive for a livable career situation; the way to achieve that is through perspective.

where most people screw up is they look to their career for complete life gratification (this outlook most always leads to inevitable let down. i’m saying this based upon thousands of stories).

so gloat away, but you’re the exception. also, if someone doesn’t feel the way you do, this doesn’t mean they are living a life of “quiet desperation”. also i wonder how long you’ve been in your career (my guess is less than 10 years, but i could be wrong).

30

also i wonder how long you’ve been in your career (my guess is less than 10 years, but i could be wrong).

Tough question since I’ve been paid to do the same sorts of things since high school, and it gradually transitioned into a full-blown career. Let’s say 20 years including high school, college, grad school work, and 8 years for a full-blown professional career position.

You seem to have tons of experience and a solid pragmatic approach, but I still cringe when you write that people should strive for a “liveable situation,” that work is a four-letter word, and to avoid misery you should seek a life outside of work.

I would say to someone young like the OP to strive for your dreams, and then at least settle for something liveable if it doesn’t work out.

31

ok, i was right. you are less than 10 years in a full swing professional career.

for the record, i never said not to aim for dreams. but the reality is that dreams are work too and still require the day to days.

the bottom line is that even rock stars need vacations.

32

yes, i know that. and i’m telling you that is expensive. as a business owner, i’m saying that out of experience.

I’m replying to your comment about you not wanting to go to a veterinary hospital/clinic because the owner is not a vet. Obviously it’s expensive. Yes, it’s in the 500k range to be exact depending on location and current income of the practice. A well established practice would obviously be asking for more. This would not be a single person venture, it rarely is when it comes to a practice. Either way though, I do have some figures on hand but are just clouds in the air at the moment. The difference in investing in a 100k education(if you are lucky enough to get out at only 100k) is not as tangible of an investment as a 2 million dollar practice.

As for the poster who said no one will loan out 500k to a 100k in debt vet student obviously has no experience with the field. This happens more often than you think. Yes, the best thing is to be a vet AND own a practice but that’s another option by itself.

33

look. you think buying it is 500K. great, lay down the jack and then you’ll see that it is far more expensive than that. you’d have to hire people, assume the cost of attrition (because the average tenure now is only a matter of a few years), front the cost of trianing people, pay the FICA taxes, support 401K monies, pay property taxes if you own the building, pay interest on the loans, insurances, and on and on and on. so take your 500 and at least triple it. meanwhile, you’re not even a vet and it’s just a beginning.

do you think your enjoyment of being around big animals is worth all of that?

when i’m telling you it’s expensive to not only buy a business, but also run one, i’m telling you it’s incredibly expensive, more than you ever think it will be. anyone who has ever owned a legit business will tell you 1) it’s harder than they ever thought it would be, and 2) it’s more expensive than they thought it would be.

it is unfortunate when a considerably inexperienced young person says they want advice but they do not consider or think deeply about what people with experience are saying to them.

carry on.

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thank you!

35

I think you’re starting to take this personally. Let’s go through this shall we?

kittykat: “because at the end of the day patients aren’t going to want to see you if you cannot treat their animals.”

In response: " I wouldn’t have the same duties as a vet if I purchased a practice. I’ll either stick to a managerial position or keep being a CVT/owner. I would need another vet to purchase/start a practice as part of this state’s law."

Now for some reason, you thought this response was somehow “questioning” your experience and you replied;

kittykat: “yes, i know that. and i’m telling you that is expensive. as a business owner, i’m saying that out of experience.”

In response: “I’m replying to your comment about you not wanting to go to a veterinary hospital/clinic because the owner is not a vet.”

I believe at this point when I did not paragraph the rest of the reply, you probably thought it was directed at you again(although this was meant to be more towards whoever threw out the 500k figure), and took offence. Either way, the numbers I wrote paralleled with 2 different veterinary practices in the Midwest. This included almost half a year’s worth of working expenses. No one said it was going to be easy but at the same time, I’m wondering if the reward would be alot more worthwhile than a general practice vet(both monetary, being able to still help, and striking out on your own kind of thing). Needless to say, I also know of a 4.2 million dollar practice that deals with both large and small animals, etc. Do I know -everything- about the practices? One or two yes, but no, not every practice-but that’s why it’s a thought in progress.

Why is it bad when a “considerably inexperienced young person” questions what you say? Just because of your experience, what you say is gospel truth? Even if it is, I would like to know the why instead of just the what. Don’t take my responses as personal attacks as it’s not meant for it to be so. I just ask questions.

36

“being able to still help”

this is why i said, as an imaginary patient, i would not want to see you because there is no way you could actually help me (because you would not be qualified, and would just waste my time. get it? if i’m at the vet, the only one i want to help me–that CAN help me–is THE VET).

see, you think you “could help” because you’d own the place, this is where you are kidding yourself. the reality is that without qualifications, sorry, you’re just the poor bloke on the hook to foot an expensive business and essentially act like an office manager.

so, if you want to act like an office manager, a wise person would realize you can do that without going several million in the hole, and you probably don’t even need the degree. maybe that is too simple for the simple though.

my last bit of already overly generous advice to you is to consider just how do you think you can help without having the qualifications to actually do so. how do you intend to help, what would be your function? (answer this for yourself, not others)

ironic, you’re antsy about going in 100+K to get qualified to actually “help”,and become a vet. maybe the time committment to achieve the degree makes you “uncomfortable”. yet that amount of money, not to mention time, is peanuts compared to buying and supporting a practice. nobody that has zero experience can even begin to consider what that kind of pressure is like. you think you have it all figured out? don’t make me laugh.

again though, i feel you’ve asked for advice, as you are young and inexperienced, yet you struggle to consider what those of real world experience actually have to share with you. in fact, you’ve been unappreciative and argumentative, IMO.

it’s very silly and impatient how many young people today (interns or straight out of school) want to automatically run the corporation without even working the business for 6 months. as if earning stripes is a ridiculous notion. no wonder droves of youngsters are returing to the comforts of their childhood bedrooms.

good luck.

37

I’ve had three careers so far and will probably have one or two more. I make my last student loan payment when I’m 63 and I wouldn’t trade my education for anything.

Some advice and thoughts for you. Maybe it will help, maybe not. :wink: I think the first question you need to ask yourself is do you want to be a specialized scientist or a business person? Those are obviously incredibly different career tracks. If you choose to be a vet you are probably going to want to stick with it for the long haul because after the investment of time and energy to graduate it will be harder to make a change for a variety of reasons. As I’m sure you know, vet school ain’t easy. :wink: You will be very specialized. If you want to be a vet do it because you want the science, responsibility and like specialization. If you go that route don’t t worry about the 100k in loans and I wouldn’t personally let that be the deciding factor by any means. Over time you will be able to pay them off.

If you don’t consider yourself a specialist and/or you are more interested in the accounting/business/sales side than the science then you might go the other route. If you don’t know what that is going to be like but don’t want to commit to vet school then just finish your degree and get into the work force to see what happens. I would never in a million years have guessed that I would go from an academic/geneticist to a technical director in the financial industry. Not since the day after my job interview has anyone has asked me in which subject I got my degree. Your performance at work (mostly being able to work effectively with people) and your perseverance will determine your success.

One thing you want to avoid though is to keep switching and adding debt and never get a degree. If you want to stay in school for a long time then work while you are taking classes and minimize the amount of money you need to borrow. Good luck :wink:

38

It sounds like if you end up buying into a business with a vet (as you say is required by law) then you’ll be acting in a managerial role and running the small business. In which case any business classes you can take will be an asset to you. That being said, if you’re 3/4 of the way through your current degree just finish it up and get the degree. The nasty truth is that most people don’t give a damn what your undergraduate degree is in as long as you have one.

As for an MBA program, I would take a long and hard look at what you expect to achieve - and give to - an MBA program. For what it’s worth, the top MBA programs won’t even look at you until you have several years full-time work experience under your belt. The average age of most MBA candidates is right around 30. An MBA program can be immensly beneficial to a small business owner and I have to say that I use skills I learned in my program ever single day be it accounting, marketing, statistics/forecasting, etc. It’s an incredibly useful degree if you go into it knowing what you want to get from it. The other HUGE benefit of an MBA program is the network you get. Of course if you’re turned off by another $100K in debt I don’t see how an MBA is going to solve that for you. You’re looking at right around another $80K to get an MBA at a top school and likely $60K at a lower tiered school so it’s not a cheap answer which is why I recommend really understanding what you want to get from an MBA program because it’s an expensive piece of paper if you’re not in it for the right reasons.

And as a small business owner I have to agree with Kittykat in saying that what you pay for the practice is one price but it’s immeasurably more expensive to keep the business up and running on a day to day business. While you have the time and access to individuals who own/run practices try to get a better sense of how much cash they burn on a daily basis. This would include things like rent for the building, staff salary and benefits (as wellas how much you then have to pay the gov’t in the form of ss and unemployment taxes), taxes, insurance, equipment (can’t be cheap!), medications, etc etc etc. You’ll need all of this information to build up a solid business case with which to bring to a bank or alternative lender when you go looking for the funds.

Not to say it all can’t be done - just think through it carefully because either an MBA &/or buying a business are both very expensive propositions.

Edited to add: Also do some research into the trends in the pet &/or large animal industry right now. I’m in the pet sector and can tell you there are a lot of interesting changes going on in the industry mainly due to the economy. The question is whether those changes will be long-lasting once the economy gets back on it’s feet. Just as an example of what might impact a vet clinic (and I’m not in the vet side of things so don’t follow that world too closely) would be the fact that some people are withholding checkups on pets now to save cash and are opting out of more expensive lifesaving care. To some people who a year or two ago wouldn’t have put a dollar amount to the life of their pet are now reconsidering that. Add to that the fact that people are getting rid of their pets (and their large farm animals - that’s a problem out here in the Pacific Northwest right now) and you’re going to have fewer clients to choose from. Plus there are some pharma companies who are making strong headway into the direct-to-consumer vet medication market which, if your clinic sells medications at a profit, could cut into your profitability. Just a few of the things going on in the industry and it’s going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.

And to answer your original question - I always knew I wanted to be an entreprenuer it just took me a while - an a lot of working for other people- to get here. I love what I do now but it’s damn hard and I’m ALWAYS the last to be paid…after all the bills, after my employees, after the feds, etc etc - so if there’s a penny leftover then it’s mine but many times I can often think of 10 other things I’d rather have that penny go towards to try and grow the business without taking on more debt.

39

I would work for free , but they still pay me .
I love flying machines , built them since I was 5 .