Careers - Talk to me about being a doctor

The Coffee Shop
1

The thread about physical therapy got me thinking that this is a good place to get some information about a career as a doctor. I’m 23, soon to be 24, and work for a software company where I sit in a cube all day. This just isn’t the life for me. In the fall I’m starting to take the necessary classes I will need to attend med school. I realize that it will be no easy task to train for even the short distances during med school and the internship that follows. What I don’t know much about is the life of a doctor once they are done with all their training. Can any doctors offer me some insight into your world? I realize there are a lot of specialties so there is not straight answers, but I’m interested in the hours you work, the time off that you get, how many hours you are able to train per week. I would also be interested to know if you were able to do much training while in med school and during the years that followed. I have some genuine reasons for wanting to go into the medical field, and that would obviously be priority number one for me, but I’d love to know how the world of triathlon and training can co-exist with a demanding job such as a doctor. Thanks for any insight.

Dan

2

Not a doctor exactly … but I’m married to a veterinarian. Close enough.

Med School/Veterinarian school (not much difference – and my wife and bro-in-law both concluded that vet school is more difficult) is extremely taxing and time consuming but you can (and should) have a life away from class.

My wife and I were married the summer before she started vet school. The first two years were horrible. Classes/labs all day, studying all night. The final two years weren’t as bad with less class time and about the same amount of studying. Clincal year was all over the place. Some rotations were cake, some were incredibly horrible – but this year is also where med/vet school differed. Med students don’t spend much time in the bovine barn during calfing season.

Currently, my wife is a resident/PhD student in an anatomic pathology program. Again, the hours are pretty long but doable. She frequently has an hour or two of stuff to do at home at night.

I think you’d be able to maintain a reasonable training program while in school. maybe not IM caliber, but Sprint and Oly distances no problem. Budget your time well. And don’t waste any time on frivolity. I think it would actually balance out a med program extremely well.

Good luck with it.

3

Well depends on the type of doctor. Look at Eric Heiden - no longer competes after getting medical degree (but he also won Olympic medals before retireing sporting wise) or more recently Christine Thorburn, competes at elite level after getting medical degree ( but at her age, she can’t have more than a few years). They also were not triathletes( skating/cyclist and cyclist,respectively).

I don’t see how any one could do it while doing their residency but I only know of the experience second hand…

4

Thanks for the reply Jcurtis. I know it would be a lot of work, but I would imagine, and hope, that med students do a bit more than just school, eat, sleep.

Swoo, you make a good point about the athletes. I think in “Gold in the Water”, one of the main swimmer (I’m totally blanking on his name right now, but it’s a big name - you probably all know who I’m talking about) was in med school and training for the Olympics, so I guess anything is possible.

Can any doctors offer me any other insight into their experiences? Thanks.

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There are lots of MD’s who post in the main forum - even tough it’s OT you might try there… slowman lets mosts of the OT threads slide for a while…

6

I am a Emergency Medicine Doctor and all experiences are going to be very different but…I had an easier first two years (book/lab work primarily) b/c my undergrad degree overlapped with the subject matter. Coming from an IT/Software background, you might have a little longer learning curve, or maybe not. Those first two years involved studying virtually every day for long periods of time. I started triathlons during that time (learned how to swim especially) so you can train if you have a structured plan. The one thing I would say is that I was not married at that time and so whatever I wanted to do, it was easy to just do. Now that I am married, the quality time with my wife takes priority over most everything. I am not sure I could have done both with such long hours spent on my career. The 3/4th yrs of med school are usually spent in clinical rotations and they can be very demanding (ie spending 36 hours in the hospital every 3 nights but things have changed for med students/residents). Where I did residency (Vanderbilt) the medical students were very well taken care of and virtually did not stay overnight ever–so look into how students are treated. The county programs are usually tougher on students and residents than the private schools. Despite all of the hard work, I was able to do a number of triathlons during medical school.

Residency is a little bit different depending on what specialty you go into. The first yr, internship, is the most difficult as the responsibility of peoples lives make you very focused. The rules have changed since I was a resident and now they cannot be on more than 24hours straight. That is a good thing in some regards (but my personal feeling is that it teaches you how to learn when you are dog tired and to follow patients over time is something you will never get from going home and coming back when the event has happened so you missed it, and therefore cannot learn from it…oh, they just do not work as hard anymore(kidding)). Anyway, I was able to finish a few triathlons every year with scheduling but never did I feel that I was prepared completely except for a couple on 'em. I remember doing a HIM in Panama City without doing any biking before…it hurt alot. Again, I was not married until out of residency and I think that was very wise…it is hard being married to your career. Make no mistake that your life revolves around your decision, weekends are not yours anymore as soon as you matriculate.

After residency is much easier in my view. I work 3-4 shifts a week and they can be anytime in the day. I do not like overnight shifts but they are part of the territory and in my early 30s, they take a day to recover. I still spend a large part of my personal time reading articles and keeping up with the literature. Right now, 3 years out of residency, I am looking at other opportunities in sports medicine (doing a fellowship). I am doing a couple triathlons/swims a year…choosing to focus on a couple. I could do more but like I said above, being married means way more than any triathlon/training. I am very fortunate in that my wife supports me and comes to my races.

Oh, no one really understands that medicine just starts with med school, after that four years, you do another 3-7yrs of residency and then you can start your practice. You do not make very good money in residency and reimbusements are decreasing every year. Do not put that much time into something you do not love/deeply feel inside of yourself. Even when you get out, you will make a very good living, but not what the movies/tv implies. In EM, you do not have many patients saying thank you, but the ones that do, make your day better. There is nothing like saving someones life, it is an amazing thing to do, even though the patient or their family may never realize it. I am very fortunate to have the life I do, and could not be as happy as I am doing anything else.

That said, you can do both triathlons and medicine. It is a long road, there are many pitfalls, but it is outstanding.

The other thing to look into is Physician Assistant programs.

Hope this helps…

7

Funny you should ask. Our Peditrician was talking with us during the last visit. She said if she had to do it over again she’d become a dermatologist (SP?). She said the hours are better and the the lawsuits were less freguent.

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Thanks for the great feedback s98swim. It gives me a lot to consider. Thank you very much.

9

I went through this exact dilemma last fall (PA school included). I decided that there were many more things in life that I wanted to experience and that starting a career in medicine at 30 was not a wise decision. You have to figure that it is not just med school (4 years) it is also residency (3-6 years) and potentially a fellowship. You are looking at +/-10 years of schooling. That’s a looooong-ass time! I am opting for a PhD instead, which may not get me exactly what I want from my professional life, but I will at least have the flexibility to pursue other interests (e.g., triathlons).

I lived with 1st year and 2nd year med students and I have to say that you have to really want it, and you have to want nothing else more (e.g., triathlons). Your first two years are school and sleep and little time for much else. You could fit in training, but then there would literally be nothing else. It all depends on how much free time you require. I also have a friend who is a 4th year orthopedic resident and his comment to me was, “Once you are committed, that’s it. You can’t look back or have regrets because you will have invested so much time and money, and made so many sacrifices.”

My 2-cents.

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I lived with 1st year and 2nd year med students and I have to say that you have to really want it, and you have to want nothing else more (e.g., triathlons). Your first two years are school and sleep and little time for much else.

What happened to my post? Crap - it was really long.

In a nutshell, that doens’t neccesarily describe the 1st and 2nd year med school by any means. It depends on the school, on the personality, and to some exten the background. People with life science majors will have an easier time, but even so most of the material is new for everyone.

I had plenty of time those 2 years to do lots of stuff besides study. Plenty.

11

Hi Dan,

Have you thought about nursing? There are direct entry master’s programs that take 2-3 years and you can make some decent money afterwards. A nurse anesthetist pulls 100k/year easily. Nurses have complete flexibility in scheduling (great for a triathlete) and you can find a job just about anywhere. The demand for skilled nurses is high and although you won’t make the same $$$ as a doctor, I think you would be happier overall. I’m in a similar situation as you and if you are considering the medical field I’d recommend taking a look at nursing.

Scott

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I was just describing my own experience. I am sure that every individual experience is different.

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I got you - just wanted to provide an alternate viewpoint. I think the school might be the most important variable… some med school have class from 8-5pm, although form what I understand many are moving or have moved away from that. But that kind of a schedule, especially coupled with a competitive environment, can make for a killer (in a bad way) combination. I happened to choose a school that had neither of those things going for it.

14

I got you - just wanted to provide an alternate viewpoint.
Sorry - I am geared to read everything on ST as a potential attack; I misinterpreted.

15

Bob Kempainen went to med school and trained for the olympic marathon at the same time, although he took some time off med school. OTOH, I understand, during his internship, he would frequently conclude his shift with a 20 miler.

16

After reading the other posts, I had a couple of thoughts…

  1. There are many schools out there, MD and DO. Some good and some bad. Where I am now, the med school (unnamed) produces 4th year med students that are not very impressive book wise and more interested in personal endeavors. That is just my opinion, maybe right on, maybe not. The point is that you should look into schools and kind of residencies they get into or don’t get into. Med school is only 4 yrs but it will help prepare you for residency and sets the tone for your career, that is also true for residencies. The person who graduates last from med school is still a doctor but there are horrible doctors out there from every school.

  2. I do believe you can have lots of fun in med school, even be competitive in triathlons. BUT you should be very well rounded and not disregard friends, family or anything else you value in life. You will regret not going fishing with your dad, or lunch with your mom, or anything that you value. Medical school should be your number one focus as those that do too much outside medicine, you can spot a mile away and know you would not send your dog to them. I am not saying you cannot have interests in other things, just you have to be focused. It is a privilege to be able to treat other people, they trust you with their deepest concerns and thier body. I was treating a 14yo girl over the wkend who was coming down on meth, and asked her if she thought it would be ok if when I was in med school that instead of studying, I did meth like her. I think she got the point (probably not) but substitute triathlons for meth. There is a balance in life, and for everyone its different. Hell, you could do recreational drugs on your free time. My sister is a vet and she had classmates who were very into rec drugs and made it through ok–i think they needed an outlet for the stress. For me, that was swimming, biking, running. Just a thought.

  3. How I get around the training time and studying is my most awesome mp3 player. I do not go for a run or get on my trainer without a lecture loaded and ready to learn something. It works well, not for swimming.

  4. Medicine gives you tremendous diversity of what you can do as well. I was lucky enough to spend 2 wks in Peru doing general medicine/emergency medicine. I had women walking 6 miles to bring their infant (on their back) to be seen. On the whole, we could only provide limited care, but I know that I helped people continue working/living–where their lives depend on the pennies they work for. I will most-likely continue to do similar work in the future. Medicine opens up so many other things.

That’s all I got! Good Luck

17

Wow, lots of great feedback from everyone here. Everyone is making very valid points. I realize that if I decide to go for this, I have to really want it - and that is what I’m scared of. I don’t want to go for it and realize that it’s not for me. Like I said, I’m 23, soon to be 24, and I have a number of classes I would need to take to even meet the prerequisites for med school. I’m hoping that the process of taking these classes at night, working full time, and eventually volunteering in a hospital on the weekends will help me make my decision. I think that sort of schedule would be a good precursor to med school, and if I can do all of that I’ll know that I really want it. The poster who mentioned nursing gave me something to consider. And I don’t know much about physician assistants. Can anyone elaborate on this role for me - the schooling involved, what can they actually practice? One of the posters mentioned the idea of being 30 and already feeling too old to go into this field. It’s funny, I feel the same way. THe soonest I could hope to start med school would be three years, I’d be 27, and I’m thinking to myself that that is too old and I’m kicking myself for not taking the necessary classes back in college when I first had thoughts of med school. I realize there is no easy answer here, but I really appreciate everyone offering their opinions and experiencs. Thanks so much.

Dan

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Dan…oh young one. In the words of Michael Gaertner, if not now, then when?

I am (cough) 36 as of last week. At age 22 I KNEW I wanted a Doctorate. I knew I wanted to be a Chiropractor. I then met the man of my dreams and put my career on hold. At age 29 still being just a girlfriend I decided screw it man, I am going after my dreams, for I truly only have myself to rely on. The Dr I was currently working for everyday would say to me, I just needed to go through the schooling. I didn’t want to be 35 and still just a girlfriend w/out my degree.

My Dr’s exact words…work hard for 4-6 yrs (after the initial BA which I already had) in school and the rest of your life will be easier, OR you could continue to take the next 4-6 years easy and enjoy life and work hard the rest of your life. The decision was easy for me. I will ALWAYS work hard, but with the key (because that is all a degree is) I have less limitations on my glass ceiling.

I KNOW being in the health care industry (at whatever level you chose) is where I belonged. I like being able to help others with their lives. I like having the impact of fixing things, and helping them fix their own bodies. It is that love of wanting to know as much as possible about the body that has made the last 6 years bearable and at time extremely enjoyable. My patients are the ones that have noticed the difference, not me.

ANY Advanced program is going to test you. It will test how bad you really want something, and then it will slam you. It will truly get you prepared for real life. If schooling doesn’t scare you from the field, you will never be at a loss out in the field. The program is supposed to get you ready for life.

That being said…prior to moving up here I didn’t even know how far a marathon was, only that I had that as goal to help keep my mind off of the 40+hrs/week in class. Next thing you know I am doing an Iron. Then I am doing ultras, and then finally going part-time so I can spend 2 weeks racing (part-time mind you is still 20-30 hrs a week!). I felt like I slipped off the deep end and nothing was there to stop me. It is how I managed stress. I ended up having to take off a quarter or two to get the swelling off my brain and my body back to normal. I had to rest–from everything. Taking a break was the best thing I could have done, for it gave me clarity of why I am really here and where I am going to head. Life is meant to be lived.

WHat ultra life has taught me is that it mirrored real life. How easy it is to just give up, and how important it is to know what you really want, and to keep digging at that goal. If you truly want to chase the Dr. program (whatever your Doctorate will be in), know WHY you are becoming ________ because those simple words is what will get you through the rough times, because their will be rough times. Keep the focus, and know when something has to give. You will be shocked at what you can accomplish if you really want it.

The ONLY regret I have, I didn’t start sooner. THere is a limit to student loans, and I am maxed out. The stress of being financially broke for the next 5 yrs is a reality…I just deal. I came here from making 80k a year to NOTHING. I am slowing rebuilding my business and getting ready for a shift again. Its not easy, but the struggle will be worth it. I do feel guilty when I take off time for races and have my patients see another therapist/intern (both work and school). BUT all my patients know what it is I do and they are behind me and in a weird way I am inspiration for them to get out and move. It is wild to watch some of my patients transform. So on the positive side, your healthy lifestyle will be appreciated by your patient.

Good luck in your decision. You are free enough to just dive right in, follow your heart, you won’t be disappointed, but WORK hard and get info from the Professors and your fellow students at all opportunities!

19

s98swim,

Great post. Thanks for all the info.

“The other thing to look into is Physician Assistant programs”

Funny you should mention that. I’m currently a Pre-PA student at UT Austin. Out of curiosity, do you have any recommendations as far as prepping for PA school? I’m volunteering, doing research, trying to keep my grades up, and am in the Marine Corps Reserve. EMT Training, etc? Is there anything you can think of that I’m lacking? Should I expect a similar schedule in PA School as your experience? From what I hear, its Med school in two years, so I imagine its pretty intense.

Thanks,

Thomas.

20

Thanks for the great response Eileen. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I don’t want to not do it because I’m scared of all the hard work and the time it will take. But the more I think about it the less that worries me. It will be a challenge. I like challenges. I like having goals and working towards them, which is one of the reason I like training and racing. I guess my biggest hangup is how to know that this is right for me. It’s a lot of work and time to realize in the end that this isn’t what I want. That is my biggest worrry, but hopefully with time, research, and experience I can make the right decision. Thanks again for your great feedback.

Dan