Roval are complete trash. .
For wet braking, i totally agree. Otherwise, my roval wheels are great but they are dangerous when its wet. My Zipps (firecrest) aren’t excellent in the wet, but at least i feel in control.
I have not read the article, but with Flo and their excellent reputation, l would imagine that it is supported by the evidence.
That said, even with the best carbon rims and rim brake pads, do any of them work even ok in the wet? Because that is where, at least in my experience, things can get very sketchy …
I’ve had zero issues descending with textured Enves in the wet
What does that mean, though? You haven’t had an accident or died yet? Or are you saying that you believe (or have evidence) that those wheels can stop as quickly as an aluminum brake track?
If your health or life actually depended on it, do you still believe that Enves will stop as quickly?
I wanted to do a similar conversion on my conti cyclocross bike. unfortunately these brakes are ‘closed circuit’ and should not be combined with drop bar hydro shifters.
Are you still using mtb/trekking krake levers or have you found out a way to combine them with drop bar shifters?
I’m using the MTB levers (4-finger length), but found this drop-bar adapter for them on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/...r-road-bike-drop-bar (to make up the bar diameter and orientation differences)
For shifters, I’m currently using a SRAM bar end TT shifter for the rear (driving a SRAM GX 10spd MTB derailleur) and since the bike has downtube bosses (and I don’t shift the front much…it basically “lives” in the middle ring of the front triple setup) I just set up a simple (and light!) downtube shifter for the front. Here’s a look at the whole thing:
I’m currently in the process of modifying the detent plate of an old Suntour “butterfly” Command Shifter that will mount right up next to the brake lever. There’s a guy in Japan that actually sells a 10sp detent plate modification for that, but it’s for Shimano 10sp road, and I’d have to run a J-Tek adapter to get it to the right cable pull…so, I decided to see if I could reverse-engineer and make one for the SRAM 10sp. I’m hoping that will make the shifting a bit more convenient in the dirt.
As far as “closed” vs. “open” goes…that shouldn’t be an issue for these brakes. After all, SRAM used the SAME levers for both their road disc hydraulic brakes (open system) and their road RIM hydraulic brakes (closed system). All that happens is that the reservoir is never actually used in operation. IMO, the only thing keeping one from running a compatible fluid system disc brake lever (in this case it would be Shimano, since they and Magura both use mineral oil) would be the whether or not the master piston size is correct (or close enough)…no way to really know that without pulling the lever apart and looking. My hunch is it won’t work, since most disc setups are high pressure (relatively) compared to the Magura low pressure setup for these brakes. There’s a difference in the hose and fittings.
I wanted to do a similar conversion on my conti cyclocross bike. unfortunately these brakes are ‘closed circuit’ and should not be combined with drop bar hydro shifters.
Are you still using mtb/trekking krake levers or have you found out a way to combine them with drop bar shifters?
I’m using the MTB levers (4-finger length), but found this drop-bar adapter for them on Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/...r-road-bike-drop-bar (to make up the bar diameter and orientation differences)
For shifters, I’m currently using a SRAM bar end TT shifter for the rear (driving a SRAM GX 10spd MTB derailleur) and since the bike has downtube bosses (and I don’t shift the front much…it basically “lives” in the middle ring of the front triple setup) I just set up a simple (and light!) downtube shifter for the front. Here’s a look at the whole thing:
I’m currently in the process of modifying the detent plate of an old Suntour “butterfly” Command Shifter that will mount right up next to the brake lever. There’s a guy in Japan that actually sells a 10sp detent plate modification for that, but it’s for Shimano 10sp road, and I’d have to run a J-Tek adapter to get it to the right cable pull…so, I decided to see if I could reverse-engineer and make one for the SRAM 10sp. I’m hoping that will make the shifting a bit more convenient in the dirt.
As far as “closed” vs. “open” goes…that shouldn’t be an issue for these brakes. After all, SRAM used the SAME levers for both their road disc hydraulic brakes (open system) and their road RIM hydraulic brakes (closed system). All that happens is that the reservoir is never actually used in operation. IMO, the only thing keeping one from running a compatible fluid system disc brake lever (in this case it would be Shimano, since they and Magura both use mineral oil) would be the whether or not the master piston size is correct (or close enough)…no way to really know that without pulling the lever apart and looking. My hunch is it won’t work, since most disc setups are high pressure (relatively) compared to the Magura low pressure setup for these brakes. There’s a difference in the hose and fittings.
Campagnolo hydro shifters use the same oil. Expensive experiment though.
Campagnolo hydro shifters use the same oil. Expensive experiment though.
Yeah…and their braking systems are actually designed by Magura. That said, from the pics I’ve seen, they appear to use the high pressure hose and fittings, not the lower pressure hose 
Another option (and also expensive) is Rotor, where the brakes are also designed/made by Magura. From what I can tell, the RT6/8 style hydraulic rim brakes use the same master cylinder bore diameter as the HS11/22/33 rim brakes, so the Rotor rim levers should work just fine.
Campagnolo hydro shifters use the same oil. Expensive experiment though.
Yeah…and their braking systems are actually designed by Magura. That said, from the pics I’ve seen, they appear to use the high pressure hose and fittings, not the lower pressure hose
Another option (and also expensive) is Rotor, where the brakes are also designed/made by Magura. From what I can tell, the RT6/8 style hydraulic rim brakes use the same master cylinder bore diameter as the HS11/22/33 rim brakes, so the Rotor rim levers should work just fine.
I have tried their hydro shifters:
As much as I would like their engineering they just do not shift very well.
more of a hydro friction that indexed shifting.
I’ve had zero issues descending with textured Enves in the wet
What does that mean, though? You haven’t had an accident or died yet? Or are you saying that you believe (or have evidence) that those wheels can stop as quickly as an aluminum brake track?
If your health or life actually depended on it, do you still believe that Enves will stop as quickly?
My experience indicates that they can stop as quickly as aluminum tracks. Have to squeeze harder, obviously. But the rear locks up easily and I’m sure that I could either flip over the bars or lock the front up if I squeezed the front too hard. The grip of my 25c GP5000 on wet pavement is the limiter, not the brake interface. Aluminum tracks wouldn’t require as much force and are thus more confidence inspiring, but maximum power is sufficient to hit the pavement.
Roval are complete trash. .
For wet braking, i totally agree. Otherwise, my roval wheels are great but they are dangerous when its wet. My Zipps (firecrest) aren’t excellent in the wet, but at least i feel in control.
Which pads have you tried?
I’m amazed by the blue pads on Knight wheels in the dry. Stronger than Enve. I’m curious how they are in the wet.
People tout Zipp but that just has a few thin slots instead of a fully textured track like Enve or Bontie. Is that slit all that is needed? Or maybe their pad/surface combination is just a better match.
Thanks for the perspective.
Sure. Though I would add that in the wet initial bite is weaker and then there is a moment during which you realize that you need to squeeze harder. I’d say that moment is a bit longer than when I’m riding aluminum. So there is a short time from when I grab my brakes to when I’m applying the right amount of pressure for “oh sh!t” moments.
There may be a time when that split second makes the difference.
If aluminum tracks came with zero aesthetic or weight penalty, I’d prefer them. But given the options, the minor difference in breaking, carbon still wins in my eyes. Citec is close