What’s the limit for someone not gifted or who doesn’t “get it”.
What’s the best approach?
I’m speculating that somewhere between advanced HS mathmatics at 18 and some undergrad level. Can anyone be taught to that level?
What’s the limit for someone not gifted or who doesn’t “get it”.
What’s the best approach?
I’m speculating that somewhere between advanced HS mathmatics at 18 and some undergrad level. Can anyone be taught to that level?
Assuming they want to learn it and will put forth the effort?
The limit? Some basic algebra, some minor geometry, and unlikely any trigonometry. Calculus? No.
I don’t believe everything can be taught. I will never play music by ear, I could visualize integrals in my sleep. People have genetic gifts of coordination, memory types, physical endurance and strength… I wouldn’t think mathematics to be any different. Left brain/right brain?
I had friends in college that couldn’t wrap their heads around anything past linear geometry. They could speak and write flawlessly. Who knows. They certainly weren’t getting calc. That wasn’t their wheelhouse.
Nice things is, unless you’re going into a math field, it’s unlikely you’ll ever need it.
What’s the limit for someone not gifted or who doesn’t “get it”.
What’s the best approach?
I’m speculating that somewhere between advanced HS mathmatics at 18 and some undergrad level. Can anyone be taught to that level?
Anyone No… There are people who will never learn that 1+1 = 2
Someone of avg intelligence I would say Algebra is obtainable by all. Geometry obtainable by most. Calc, the numbers start rolling off.
Best approach… I struggled for years trying to teach my brother math. Finally in his 2nd go at college math finally clicked, 5 yrs later our Nephew needed help. My brother is far better at explaining it so he got it then I.
I personally believe the best method, find someone who struggled and finally got it. They have the tool set to explain it to someone else. Now maybe some smart people have done that have documented it and have actually trained folks to teach that way, but I doubt it.
People who just get math suck at teaching it cause we just get it.
Some of the online video instruction is amazing. Before these resources existed, when you got stuck you had to wait to see someone. Now anytime you get stuck, you can just go to Khan Academy or Youtube and get the help you need.
Even the lectures from some of the top universities are online now, although I think something like the Khan Academy has better presentation at the undergrad level.
You can even get online tutors via skype if that isn’t enough.
Will:
Beethoven, okay. He looked at a piano, and it just made sense to him. He could just play.
Skylar:
So what are you saying? You play the piano?
Will:
No, not a lick. I mean, I look at a piano, I see a bunch of keys, three pedals, and a box of wood. But Beethoven, Mozart, they saw it, they could just play. I couldn’t paint you a picture, I probably can’t hit the ball out of Fenway, and I can’t play the piano.
Skylar:
But you can do my o-chem paper in under an hour.
Will:
Right. Well, I mean when it came to stuff like that… I could always just play.
I guess i am proof positive that someone who just doesn’t come by math easily or intuitively can learn advanced math and use it in ensuing applications.
I learned Calculus and later Differential Equations via the “Thayer Method” at West Point. Basically rote memorization and repetition to the point you began to see how things came together. Went on to use in Mechanics, Physics. Also had to master Thermo and Fluids as well as basic EE. All of this came hard for me compared to history or political theory and basic military science.
I went on to be a regular infantry Soldier so never used these skills again and they quickly faded from memory as did two years of Brazilian Portuguese foreign language training. My Dad, who was a no shit real Civil Engineer, used his advanced math all the time.
/r
Not everyone’s brain can wrap itself around math, especially the further it gets from concrete real-world application.
For me, I found the limiter on my progress corresponded directly to my interest level. I had an engaging Calc professor at Annapolis, and I did fine in his classes, although I was a History major. I had a boring prob/stats professor and I struggled, mostly because I just couldn’t bring myself to pay full attention, or spend any extra time on the material.
That said, I was an instructor for a few years, and there are some students and some topics that simply don’t work together. No matter how many different instructors try, or how many times or different ways you present the material, they just aren’t ever going to really understand it.
What’s the limit for someone not gifted or who doesn’t “get it”.
What’s the best approach?
I’m speculating that somewhere between advanced HS mathmatics at 18 and some undergrad level.*** Can anyone be taught to that level?***
No. I had a very difficult time with math in school and ended up in the Basic Ed program, later in life I went back to school but it was the same thing, I tried counseling , tutoring, nothing worked, it’s just the way it is, some just can’t.
There’s certainly a lot to be said for your point about student/professor interaction. Although it isn’t always of a 'positive nature. I was failing Chem early in my sophomore year. I strongly suspect my football coach talked to head of the Chem department cause next thing I know Colonel Huff (the head of the Chemistry Department) moved me into his class. He told me the first day I got moved in there that he was going to call on me me every day; every class; have me come up the the board and demonstrate competence in whatever was the subject for that lesson. He also made me come in for additional instruction in the afternoon before we went up to Michie Stadium for football practice. So yeah I passed both semesters of Chem with a C and a C+ respectively. I hated it. But I made it.
I hear you on Prob & Stats. The only course in college i did not keep or sell back my text books. ONce i was double damn sure i had passed, i put that text in a metal trash can and burned the fucker… "If you have 1000 light bulbs with a mean failure rate of… " The stuff of nightmares.
/r
I highly doubt it. My Dad has a Mathematics degree - when I needed math help in middle school he would end up shouting at, calling me names and suggesting I attend a school for the mentally handicapped (my Dad was abusive). So, I don’t get math and I’m pre-conditioned to never get it. I would bet many kids like me were chastised at those critical moments in Algebra and Geometry and just gave it up.
My kids did fine in math through HS and so far in college but they’re not in math-based majors. Stats, on the other hand, is throwing them for a loop.
The first thing is that the person want to lean. You can only teach someone that wants to learn, that applies to anything. And for calculus you do need something close to average intelligence. I don’t think you need above average intelligence.
If Richard Feynman did a lecture on it, I’d start there. Best teacher ever.
What’s the limit for someone not gifted or who doesn’t “get it”.
What’s the best approach?
I’m speculating that somewhere between advanced HS mathmatics at 18 and some undergrad level. Can anyone be taught to that level?
Will:
Beethoven, okay. He looked at a piano, and it just made sense to him. He could just play.
Skylar:
So what are you saying? You play the piano?
Will:
No, not a lick. I mean, I look at a piano, I see a bunch of keys, three pedals, and a box of wood. But Beethoven, Mozart, they saw it, they could just play. I couldn’t paint you a picture, I probably can’t hit the ball out of Fenway, and I can’t play the piano.
Skylar:
But you can do my o-chem paper in under an hour.
Will:
Right. Well, I mean when it came to stuff like that… I could always just play.
Never mind all that stuff;
‘‘Do You Like Apples’’!
Them apples
I thought just cleaning the floors and you’d get it through osmosis
.
The first thing is that the person want to lean. You can only teach someone that wants to learn, that applies to anything. And for calculus you do need something close to average intelligence. I don’t think you need above average intelligence.
Agree 100%.
Not everyone is going to be able to play Rachmaninoff on the piano, but you can learn to play C-scale with one hand.
Very few people are going to write the next great American novel, but they can learn proper grammar and punctuation rules.
Not everyone is going to be able to do integration by parts, but you can determine the first derivative of y = 3x^2.
99% of the population can live full and rewarding lives without being able to play the piano, write novels, or solve calculus problems. But any academic exercise will help you solve the other intellectual problems the you will face in life.
A lot of students are quick to give up when faced with something new or that they’ve been told is “too hard”. But with average intellectual ability and a reasonable amount of motivation, students can at least master the basics of any subject.
Some of the online video instruction is amazing. Before these resources existed, when you got stuck you had to wait to see someone. Now anytime you get stuck, you can just go to Khan Academy or Youtube and get the help you need.
Even the lectures from some of the top universities are online now, although I think something like the Khan Academy has better presentation at the undergrad level.
You can even get online tutors via skype if that isn’t enough.
I’m working my way through the Khan Academy math tutorials.
I struggled with math and topped out too soon. I’m finding that going at my own pace and repeating concepts as often as I need to is really helping, so Khan is just what the doctor ordered. I’m sure I’ll reach a point where even that isn’t enough but I’m making progress and I don’t mind saying, it’s been damn satisfying.
It just blows me away at all the free top level education you can get on the internet these days. Even many of the pay options are affordable by most people.
And what blows me away more are the number of people that never even consider using these high quality tools. It’s like the tap water of education. You can say til you last breath that drinking tap water is as good or better than bottled water, but some people will never even entertain the notion.
Almost everybody in my immediate or extended family have technical backgrounds where they needed to learn advanced math - engineers, computer geeks, etc. I tried following the crowd by studying engineering for half a year but just couldn’t wrap my head around the math. Dropped out and did a psychology degree with a minor in biological sciences and really enjoyed it. But as far as math was concerned, just didn’t have a knack (or interest) for it. Math just never came easy for me, but I suppose its pretty hard to teach something to somebody who has no interest in it.
Our daughter was advanced in math (calc age 14) and went to specialized math/science last 2 years of high school. She was on the lower half of ability of others there. They would get 1 problem to solve each week (proofs) not easy, but after solving it, they would need to solve (and proof) another whole way. This pushed their brains (most of it not advanced math) to the limit.
Can you teach them, probably (great math teacher), can you coach/mentor them, definitely.