I have a friend who just did his first sprint. He is in his early 30’s and he finished 154/164. His average run times are around 10:30-11:00 per mile when he races after a year or two of training (albeit probably not the right way). He obviously is genetically deficient aerobically as his height and weight are 6’1 and 185lbs. He wants to know if he busts his butt can he ever stand on the age group podium. He finished this tri in 1:55 and I told him he might get down to 1:40 next year but not much faster.
Does this sound like any of you guys?
Just how much can you improve?
He obviously is genetically deficient aerobically as his height and weight are 6’1 and 185lbs.
i think nothing is obvious without extensive lab testing.
i’d look at how long he has been running, biking, and/or swimming. how is his swim stroke? how is he set up on his bike? i think 95% of people can improve a lot …
I have a friend who just did his first sprint. He is in his early 30’s and he finished 154/164. His average run times are around 10:30-11:00 per mile when he races after a year or two of training (albeit probably not the right way). He obviously is genetically deficient aerobically as his height and weight are 6’1 and 185lbs. He wants to know if he busts his butt can he ever stand on the age group podium. He finished this tri in 1:55 and I told him he might get down to 1:40 next year but not much faster.
Does this sound like any of you guys?
Just how much can you improve?
how do you know this??? what make you think this? maybe you have a very good potential athlete in him but it s just not developped…
yes, hard work would most likely over year get him to whatever level he desire… for sure on age group podium…if he really make all the right decision and sacrifice over years… he will stand on the pro podium…
i know a few very slow athlete finish last in races and changing things upside down over years… work is the important factor… genetic is something that should not be use as it turns out most often to be use as a excuse to why you dont accomplish somehting
"if he really make all the right decision and sacrifice over years… he will stand on the pro podium"…personally, I think thats flat out wrong. Put in four to five years of training 6 days a week and you will realize your potential in our sport. Thats like saying to a 12 year old boy, “keep hitting that baseball and learning the game and some day you will play for the Boston Red Sox”
How about some solid numbers. I know five years ago I raced in a duathlon and finished around 1:45. Busted my but and the next year finished 1:30 then the year after did it in 1:23 but…while I am not pro quality, do have an athletic background.
‘‘He finished this tri in 1:55 and I told him he might get down to 1:40 next year but not much faster.’’
Are you crazy? If you ask almost any top place age group finisher how they got to the top, they will say that if they didn’t break their ass every day they wouldn’t be there. I’ve never heard anyone say ‘‘I’ve got great genes, this is easy." Tell your friend that if he wants it bad enough to get out there and "break his ass’’ every day he will get to the top. You will too, if you work hard enough.
My wife Janice and I were runners and in the winter we skied. We built our house near Bellayre Mountain in New York. Focused on the house we got away from running seriously but planned on doing the Bellayre ski/bike/run Triathlon once the house was finished. In '94 the house was almost finished when Janice died suddenly. Two or three weeks later I was standing on top of Ballayre at the start of the triathlon with tears in my eyes. I finished way way back but didn’t care, I had done what we planned. I trained my balls off that year and set PR’s at every distance I ran. I bought my first real bicycle and trained in those mountains every weekend. I stood in front of the tv almost every morning in a downhill skier’s crouch for twenty minutes to make sure I could hold it for the race. I went back to Bellayre the next year and took first in my age group for her and finished way up overall.
In this sport, if you want it bad enough, you will succeed.
Well I am glad that you ae looking at least a year or more down the road, because that is the time line when REAL sustainable and significant results can start to be seen. To often here and elsewhere people’s time-lines are way to short for this sort of thing: What workouts can I do in the next three weeks for a race I have in a month? - that sort of thing.
Year 1: When I started running, it was all I could do to bang out 3.1 miles at 10:00/m (in a sprint tri).
Year 2: Baby - just the occasional jog.
Year 3: After a year of serious training, yesterday my training run was 1.5hr at 8:00/m.
Unlike your friend, I was surrounded by people that told me I could get a lot better.
Like i’ve said before here, I went from 6:05 in Eagleman in '03 to 4:30 in '04. I also just biked CdA in 5 hours with a “genetically deficient aerobic” position.
But I came from a competitive swimming background in college, so while Jonnyo doesn’t want to gives his genes any credit, that doesn’t mean they aren’t important. But if your friend is willing to “bust his butt” then he can get fast (and maybe slim down a bit, though I was 187 when I dropped those 94 minutes).
If your friend wants to put the time and effort in, he can probably improve a great deal, especially if he’s not that good a swimmer and/or has only been running and/or biking for a couple years.
Personally, I’ve knocked 80 minutes off my marathon time (from 4:56 to 3:37) in a couple years, and I’ve never really trained that hard for it. Despite the fact that I’m built much more to be a swimmer, not a runner (long arms, short legs and kinda of stocky), I could probably knock another 30 minutes off, maybe more, if I really wanted to do so (i.e., if I valued that more than family and work and ate well year round instead of most of the time). When I swam, I went from being a lousy younger AGer locally to lettering three times on one of the better high school teams in the country almost entirely because I worked really hard at it.
A few other examples. I know that jarretj that posts here has knocked around 10 minutes, maybe more, off his run time in an Olympic distance tri over the last couple of years and that he has done that by running a lot for a few years. gavnnnuns was, by his own admission, a fat tub of goo a few years ago, and has gotten to be quite fast by work hard at it for a few years also.
Dont get me wrong here, I want him to succeed and I havent given him anything but positives, but he told me he wanted to win his age group next year. I guess after reading some of your stories, that is possible, if he works hard.
Put in four to five years of training 6 days a week and you will realize your potential in our sport. Thats like saying to a 12 year old boy, “keep hitting that baseball and learning the game and some day you will play for the Boston Red Sox”
I think that is a really depressing outlook. FWIW, I put in four or five years of training 6 days a week and got myself two consecutive 5:09 HIMs. Then I put in four or five more years, and then one or two years training seven days a week, and this year I have a 4:07 and a 3:56.
Even worse, I think, is the implication that you would tell a 12 year old not to pursue his/her dreams. Certainly you might never achieve your dreams, and certainly luck plays a part, and certainly genetics play a part. But half assing your training and then concluding that you have “realized your potential” kind of sucks. If you want to tell yourself that, it’s no skin off my nose, but don’t go telling it to impressionable 12 year olds.
Possible, but if he sets winning as his goal, there are a ton of factors that can ruin it for him. The better goals are improving, getting healthy, enjoying our sport. A lot of newbies, and I was certainly one of them, think that winning is the way to happiness. It is not. Yes, winning is fun (I have been on a podium, albeit very minor ones) 3 times. But to say “I will only be happy to win” is to set up for a big fall. What if Simon Lessing shows up the sprint that day? What if the chain on the bike breaks? What if it just isn’t the day?
That said, he can improve a ton. But if he does not enjoy training and improving for their own sakes, he’ll be out long before he sees a podium.
2004 - 2:08 (fairly close to last)
2005 - 1:57
2006 - 1:34
2007 - 1:29
I expect 2008 I will hit 1:22 or less, since I’m already FOP on swim and bike, another year of hard work on run speed and I can easily make that. My 5k time is still in the mid 30’s. I expect to drop that to high 20’s by end of year. (Current goal, since run is limiter).
A lot went into that, but it’s doable. I have absolutely no genetic aptitude for this stuff, it’s pure grit and determination. And dropping 90lbs of lard of my carcass
Now, your subject line said “FOP” and later you say “Podium”, I don’t see them as the same. FOP to me is top 1/3 (MOP middle 1/3, BOP last third). I would say FOP is very doable, but he is in a HARD age group to podium.
Get him to train the RIGHT way, then I would say sub 1:40 by next year is possible don’t you?
Sure you can, it just takes hard work and patience. Four years ago at 5’10 I weighed in at 235 pound and could not run a mile without walking, and a 30 min bike ride wiped me out leaving me sore for days.
Today I just got back in from a training ride where I rode solo for 70 mile of hills at 21.5 mph avg and HR of 135avg. I’ve also gone from 1:40 1/2 mary time which was my first race ever in 2004 to a 1:18 earlier this year. I had zero athletic background.
You just need lots and lots of “fun” workouts, and be somewhat ocd about sticking to a plan
Did you have to do anything special to get your time down from 1:30 to 1:18? 1:18-1:20 is my aim for next year and I ran a 1:31 a couple of weeks ago. Last year my PR was 1:57.
