…how the “stem area” on this BMC is NOT an illegal nosecone fairing, but the Shiv’s “stem attachment” was a nosecone? UCI…gotta love the consistency… :-/
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/gallery-at-the-start-of-the-giro-team-time-trial/120478
i’ll tell you how one large company exec explained it to me. imagine jack nicholson heading up the tech group at the UCI. *you have to ask me nicely. * some companies (not specialized) bring their intended designs to the UCI in advance, and ask if it’s okay. others surprise the UCI commissaires at the races with their new designs.
on the one hand, it’s stupid not to go to the UCI in advance with intended design elements. on the other, you shouldn’t have to. nevertheless, that’s how it was explained to me, and that’s how two bikes that seem to either both be legal or illegal can be treated differently.
imagine the proximity that bmc, a swiss company, has to the UCI, a swiss-based organization. imagine the ease by which bmc can waltz over the UCI and ask in advance of a design will be legal. specialized has no such proximity, nor does it seem (according to my source) compelled to go to the UCI and ask permission for designs it intends to use.
i’m not saying this is how it is, but my source sponsors at least one pro tour team. this is how my source characterized the process.
i’ll tell you how one large company exec explained it to me. imagine jack nicholson heading up the tech group at the UCI. *you have to ask me nicely. * some companies (not specialized) bring their intended designs to the UCI in advance, and ask if it’s okay. others surprise the UCI commissaires at the races with their new designs.
on the one hand, it’s stupid not to go to the UCI in advance with intended design elements. on the other, you shouldn’t have to. nevertheless, that’s how it was explained to me, and that’s how two bikes that seem to either both be legal or illegal can be treated differently.
imagine the proximity that bmc, a swiss company, has to the UCI, a swiss-based organization. imagine the ease by which bmc can waltz over the UCI and ask in advance of a design will be legal. specialized has no such proximity, nor does it seem (according to my source) compelled to go to the UCI and ask permission for designs it intends to use.
i’m not saying this is how it is, but my source sponsors at least one pro tour team. this is how my source characterized the process.
Is it kind of like this? 
From “Five Easy Pieces”:
Jack Nicholson (Bobby Dupea): I’d like an omelet, plain, and a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast, no mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce. And a cup of coffee.
Lorna Thayer (Waitress): A #2, chicken salad sand. Hold the butter, the lettuce, the mayonnaise, and a cup of coffee. Anything else?
Jack Nicholson (Bobby): Yeah, now all you have to do is hold the chicken, bring me the toast, give me a check for the chicken salad sandwich, and you haven’t broken any rules.
Lorna Thayer (Waitress): You want me to hold the chicken, huh?
Jack Nicholson (Bobby): I want you to hold it between your knees.
…in any case, it sounds as if you agree with me that the rules are apparently inconsistently applied…still…
“in any case, it sounds as if you agree with me that the rules are apparently inconsistently applied”
an NGB misapplying nonsensical rules? say it isn’t so!
“in any case, it sounds as if you agree with me that the rules are apparently inconsistently applied”
an NGB misapplying nonsensical rules? say it isn’t so!
It makes one wonder if there are other…ahem…“methods” of “asking nicely”…wink, wink…
some companies (not specialized) bring their intended designs to the UCI in advance, and ask if it’s okay.
do you know (for a fact) that is true (the part about specialized)?
I got the impression from a conversation at interbike that is not true.
g
some companies (not specialized) bring their intended designs to the UCI in advance, and ask if it’s okay.
do you know (for a fact) that is true (the part about specialized)?
I got the impression from a conversation at interbike that is not true.
g
Yeah…and I think I recall Jordan relating the same impression as well…(I tried searching on it but the search function seems down at the moment).
“do you know (for a fact) that is true (the part about specialized)?”
no i don’t. what i related is how the process occurred (including the opinion of how specialized approached the process re the shiv) according to another bike company exec familiar with the process. but, this makes my description of specialized’ posture fourthhand at best, that is, behavior/approach of specialized people => UCI tech posse => competing bike company’s exec => me.
i don’t think specialized should have to cow tow to the UCI tech people. i think it might be prudent to do so, but, tom is right. they shouldn’t have to. the UCI is fond of saying (directly to me) that the rules are crystal clear and they have remained unchanged for a decade. so, the shiv either is or isn’t legal and the bike should be able to be rolled up the starting ramp of any UCI race without any issue. unless it’s not legal. which, if it’s not legal, then is there something materially different about the bmc that makes it legal?
i don’t follow this closely, but, i don’t know why the shiv is illegal if the trek ttt in its largest size was legal (remember, the rules haven’t changed in a decade, according to the UCI’s tech chair).
fair enough,
my point was, in a conversation with Mr. Cote (and TomA) I seem to recall that Specialized might have had pre-authorization for the shiv.
And if that is true, than any attitude exuded from them hence seems deserved.
g
That was also posted on here (again, by mark)
Chris
.
Yes, I think I can. Stating the rules that make one legal and the other illegal might be more difficult though.
Look (for many years), BMC, Felt, Trek, etc - Integrate the nosecone with the fork.
Specialized Shiv - Integrate the nosecone with the stem. The “stem” is now ridiculously large, and contains a large cavity of empty space that might be considered a fairing since it’s only job is to support the brake in it’s normal location, which the brake could do on it’s own were it simply flipped over.
I think the Shiv is genius, but if you’re trying to guarantee UCI legality, it would be much more intelligent to go down the Look/Felt road than trying to forge your own. The UCI is not suddenly going to rule 12 years or more of Look frames illegal.
Chris
the UCI still feels bad because the bmc is about as aero as the argon with the nosecone.