Calories In Vs. Calories Burned on a HIM

Triathlon Forum
1

I have now done 2 HIMs and just still can’t seem to get my nutrition plan down. On my first one I did what most people do and just made it up as I went along. Obviously this didn’t work and although I finished I slammed into the wall at about mile 4 of the run and did the death march for the last 9. My run time sucked big time. My legs cramped the rest of the way.

So for this last one I decided to try and game plan for what I felt I needed to eat/drink. I did a few 60 milers on the bike and a bunch of 13 mile runs and decided what felt like was a good amount of food to take in and still feel OK. This failed miserably too. Once again I finished but the run was a drag. My legs cramped even though I took 3 salt tablets on the bike and drank a good amount of Hammer. I seem to follow the plan until about mile 50 of the bike when the nutirition plan goes out the window. I start to feel sick, dehydrated and just can’t seem to force myself to put down the calories even though I know I need to.

For my next one I plan on calculating roughly the amount of calories I will burn throughout the race and put those same amount of calories back in. No matter how sick I feel I will force it down my throat if I have to.

So my question is: 1)is this approach just plain stupid or will it work? 2)is about 3500-4000 calories burned in a HIM about right or too much? 3) is it feasible to think I can take in that many calories throughout a 5-6 hour period??

Sorry but that ended up being a lot questions…

2

1)is this approach just plain stupid?

Yes.

2)is about 3500-4000 calories burned in a HIM about right or too much?

That’s in the ballpark.

  1. is it feasible to think I can take in that many calories throughout a 5-6 hour period??

No.

Most people can take in 250-300 Cal per hour during excercise. Your stomach will not be happy if you try more. Make sure you get enough fluids and electrolytes, and work on conditioning to avoid that “death march”. (Don’t ask me how I know this…)

Oh, one more thing – My motto is, “If you have to walk during the run, then you biked too hard.”

3

Maybe you swim/bike too hard - how are you pacing yourself?

Dehydration - are you drinking enough/peeing?

What is your height/weight, swim time, bike time, and rough idea of difficulty of course? How fast do you ride 60/run 13 in training?

To answer your questions:

  1. Stupid - you will vomit.
  2. In the ballpark. I burn about 3500 in a half at about 30 min swim, 20-21 mph, 1:40 run, 5 hour time - average/easier course. 150 pounds.
  3. No.

Also if you go about 3 1/2 hour then bonk - maybe you can’t burn fat and you’re just running out of glycogen…Ever done any longer races and done fine?

Dave

4

Maybe individualization is overrated, if you start customizing at 3500 cals intake, you will need many failures to arrive at a reasonable plan.

I would suggest:

  1. Stick with high quality liquid (sport drink) or semiliquid products (gels) as intensity is too high to eat
  2. Eat high carbs - low fibre - high salt - on the day before (I like pasta, potatos and white rice with tomatoe sauce and a chicken breast)
  3. Eat a high carbs - low fibre - low protein breakfast (bagel, banane, 1/2 litre of sports drink) 2.5-3 hours before the race
  4. Eat a sport bar 1hr before the race with water
  5. 15 minutes before the race drink 0,5 litre of high quality sports drink
  6. On the bike have one bottle (0,75 litre) high quality sports drink per hour - maybe one or two gels chased with water
  7. On the run have a gel with water every 20-30 minutes starting in T2

The key here is finding a high quality sports drink and gel, containing natrium, BCAAs, fructose + maltodextrine in the right combination. (I use powerbar)

I think it is slightly strange for a HIM to need combining 10 different electrolyte products with fruit purees and home cooked … whatever. It is not the Race across america, a half ironman should not be “difficult” nutritionwise.

2 high quality products, a good sport drink and a good gel ist all you need, I personally use bars, when the race duraction exceeds 10 hours (Ironman).

Nutrition does not need to be a feared 4th discipline, use few high quality products (for me: Sportsdrink only up to 3 hours, additional gels up to 9 hours, additional bars up to 12 hours, maybe coke in the end if it is available - NEVER more than 4 products+water), complicated formulas using 10 different capsules taken in a complicated scheme … not necessary. And contrary to what most people say - within my products I am flexible according to feel. If my plan says “gel” but my stomach does not agree, I will switch to alternating coke+water and sportsdrink+water, this always works for me. When in an ironman I can’t down a bar, 2 gels will be fine as well.

But please - KISS - it’s not rocket science:

  1. Sportsdrink (the base)
  2. Gels (fast fuel)
  3. Bars (slow fuel)
  4. Water
  5. Coke

OD:

bike: 1 litre sports drink (200-260 cals)
run: 0,5 litre sports drink (100-130 cals)

HIM:

bike: 2 litre sports drink, 0.5 litre water, 2 gels (300-400 cals / hr)
run: gels, water, coke, sports-drink according to feel (150-250 cals / hr)

IM:

Bike: 3,5 litre sports drink, 1 litre water, 3-4 bars, 2-4 gels (400-450 cals / hr)
Run: gels, water, coke, sports-drink according to feel (150-250 cals / hr)

5

There is no possible way to equal output and input.

I highly recommend Hammer Nutrition products, and as such,their reasoning behind it. I have used their products unsuccessfully for many ultra-endurance events, like a 26 hour Furnace Creek 508 time, trail-style marathons, and events like cycling crits and cycling road races.

Additionally, they have tons of litterature on their web site to help you. Look for one publication called the endurance athletes guide to success.

Nutrition is a key element to success, and you should really take some time to figure it out, and calories in - calories out thinking is not going to get you anywhere.

John

6

There is no possible way to equal output and input.

I highly recommend Hammer Nutrition products, and as such,their reasoning behind it. I have used their products unsuccessfully for many ultra-endurance events, like a 26 hour Furnace Creek 508 time, trail-style marathons, and events like cycling crits and cycling road races.

Additionally, they have tons of litterature on their web site to help you. Look for one publication called the endurance athletes guide to success.

Nutrition is a key element to success, and you should really take some time to figure it out, and calories in - calories out thinking is not going to get you anywhere.

John

I understand the hammer concept for ultra events (2*IM or more). But using gels without electrolytes and combining them with electrolyte tablets … thats more confusing for those who already have problems than necessary.

HIM or OD racing should not be more work to prepare nutritionally than to mix up some sports drink (already containing a good mix of carbs, natrium and bcaas) and grab a few gels.

7

have you stopped to consider that maybe you’re just…well, unfit? not trying to flame (seriously, i’m trying to be constructive!), but like others have mentioned HIM nutrition is not complicated. all the things you’ve said just scream “I WASN’T PREPARED”…i suggest you stop looking for an excuse and just get out there & train better. a few 60 mile rides & 13 mile runs won’t necessarily prepare you to race a HIM. look first at your training volume, intensity, periodization & taper…get those essentials right THEN have a look at your nutrition plan, its the easiest box to tick. good luck mate! :slight_smile:

8

You do not need, want, or have to replace all the cals burned in a HIM during the race.

Unless you like gut cramping and/or puking - then be my guest.

FWIW - A wise man (Rich Strauss) says - unless proven otherwise, if you blow up on the run, it was a bike pacing error that caused it.

While individual needs and results will vary, for HIM you will probably be ok if you start with the following, and then customize and tweak it during training and subsequent races:

Breakfast (3hrs or more before race start) 250-750 cals of easily digested whatever (I like Ensure)

Swim - try not to hydrate too much during :wink:

Bike - 200-300 cals/hr, of whatever works for you. (I like Infinit, since it also has the electrolytes in it)
16-24 oz of fluids/hr, depending on temps and your sweat rate, etc.

Run - 100-300 cals/hr, of whatever works for you. (I like gels and water, supplement w/ salt tabs). Fluids - yes, within reason. Too much may be worse than too little here.

PS - I like Hammer products, BUT, they have VERY low electrolyte content in general.
You need a handful of Endurolytes to get the same sodium as 1 Succeed! salt cap, for example.
So, if you took 3 Endurolytes on the bike, that’s actually very little sodium intake.
(I’ll use them in training since I got a ton for free, but for raceday I use Succeed! tabs, usually 2 every half hour during the run, and even more when it’s hot, cuz I sweat like Mike Tyson at a spelling bee :wink:

But like I said before, your problems are more likely of the bike pacing variety, morseso than nutritional.

9

Thanks for the info. That all is very helpful.

I think part of my biggest issue may be eating anything the morning of the race. I just never ever feel like eating before a race even though I know I need to. Also, looking back I probably didn’t take in enough fluids the morning of the race either. I was the last wave which meant I had to sit around for an hour after the first wave and really didn’t take in much food or water during that timeframe.

I agree that I would rather keep the nutrition plan as simple as possible. Adal, your plan just seems to make sense to me. I will go with it on my next race and see how it turns out.

As far as just making excuses for being UNDERtrained. Hey, I am no professional putting in 40 hours of training per week so I will always consider that a possiblity. But I have friends who have trained far less than me yet still manage to get through a HIM with a much better time and minus the cramps.

I am 5’8" and 140lbs so I think I am pretty FIT. I finish a sprint in 1:00 flat, a OLY in 2:35 and my weekly mileage for the last year has been running about 100 miles- bike and 25 miles - run. Maybe that is not enough to finish FOP age group but IMO it is enough to not have to slog to the finish line. But whatever.

I will take everyones advice. I appreciate the input.

10

I weight 182 pounds and I drink two bottles of Boost the morning of the race, take a gel right before the swim and then eat about 400 calories/hour of fat free Fig Newtons on the bike. The last 45 minutes on the bike I switch to gels and make sure I am well hydrated before the run. While running I only drink water and Gatorade (no gels), and I’m fine.