Calling all Juniors / U23

How many Juniors read slowtwitch? If you are a junior or U23 (athlete aged 16-23) please post to this thread and answer these questions…

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon?

  2. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it?

  3. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)?

  4. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?

  5. How can we get you and your friends to get involved?

We (USAT and USAT Coaches) seem to have a problem getting the word out and attracting more young talent to the sport. I don’t want this to be a political thread about if we should be supporting juniors, or coaches, or going to worlds, or finding the next olympian at ncaa swim meets, or whatever. I want to hear from the athletes themselves. Freestyle?

I’ll prefece this by saying i’m from Canada… so not all of it applies… but i figure i can answer anyhow.

  1. yep… 3 in fact… Junior Nats in 2002, 2003… and now i’m not a junior anymore :(… and then this Sherebrooke triathlon to qualify for Worlds Univeristy… (in 9 days)… and then some local tri’s which had enough people drafting to qualify as a draft legal race.

  2. I actually enjoy draft legal racing… it has more tatics than a regular tri…

  3. I think that implementing more draft legal tri’s would help, Ontario hasn’t started doing this, but I know that in Quebec, pretty much every junior race… starting at about 12 or 14? is draft legal, I think thats a great way of getting the kids started.

4-5) In regards to getting more participation, lower the freaking entry fee’s, In Ontario I pay ~$50 for a tri, and then I have to get my parents to drive me to the race… having more races, with lower entry fee’s would encourage more participation. I also know that its a pretty imidating sport to the uninitiated, all the expensive bikes, and fancy gear can turn some people off it before they even start. We’re starting to get the establishment of clubs (most notably the Hamilton Hammerheads) which is just kids, who are starting to clean up at some races, I think thats an awsome way of encouraging participation. In regards to funding… we don’t really have that in Canada.

Anyhow… hope that helps…
David

Let me add that I am from Bermuda and only lived in the USA for school…

  1. No

  2. I can’t swim - and don’t like to swim.

  3. Get more people in from other sports, ie. hold shorter distance events with team events so that we can get the single sport specialists to start and get their feet wet.

  4. Knew about the races - avoided them. Didn’t know about the funding.

  5. Later start time supersprint type races. Get college teams to do triathlons after the season is over (swimmers, runners). Encourage team events so that single-sporters get hooked. (I started as runner, did a duathlon, and then later learned to swim for my first triathlon)

Don’t give kids false hopes. There are plenty who go out and get prizes at a young age and suddenly wake up and get a fairly solid pounding when they have to swim in a bigger pond. I think the emphasis on kids triathlon should be less on winning and more on competing or completing against one’s own abilities and limitations. The program in Bermuda has done a very good job with this over the past 10 years.

On a personal note - I raced triathlon in college. The only reason I could afford the sport was that I was making two or three times the USA wages each summer in my native Bermuda. While I don’t think it’s a good idea to give financial handouts to athletes, I think it might be a good idea to reduce the cost of entry for those who are still in school.

I’ll never be a fast enough swimmer to compete in ITU style events, after racing fairly well at age-group worlds (not draft legal then) I had basically done everything there was to do in the short-distance end of the sport. At some point it gets boring to pay $100 another identical cookie cutter Olympic distance where the same race happens every time. After college I spent about a year getting drunk and having sex, perhaps trying to make up for all those Fridays in college when I was in bed at 9PM. Now at age 21 I’m a month into a new athletic career as a cyclist… with a shot at Ironman happening in a few years time perhaps.

ajjones@northrock.bm

My daughter doesn’t read this forum. She’s never done a draft legal race (didn’t know there was such a thing for kids)and we know nothing of the junior program. Where can we find out more?

  1. Nope.

  2. Because I don’t have a road bike.

  3. Have many more races in the midwest.

  4. Yes, but I also new they were not cheap.

  5. Friends?

My daughter is a 13-15 junior and she does not read slowtwitch.

  1. No, she has not.

  2. There are no races that are convenient for us.

  3. The one thing that I would like to see is reduced fees for juniors in triathlon events. When my daughter does runs or cycling events, the entries are usually reduced for juniors.

  4. I did know that there were draft-legal races and my daughter will be attending a regional camp next month. I do not know anything about funding, but would love to know more.

  5. My daughter comes from a swimming background and we have tried to get some of her swimming friends involved in triathlon. The costs involved have been a major problem. When I tell them the entry fee for a race is $60.00 bucks, they usually freak out. The lack of juniors in our area is also a detriment to my daughter’s racing because she has no local kids to train and/or race with. We have to drive 4 hours away to races that have other juniors. If my daughter does not stick with triathlon, the lack of involvement of other kids her age will be the main reason. And I think the cost of races is a huge part of the reason there are so few juniors.

Can the average junior do draft-legal races, or only the “elite” juniors. I mean, there aren’t draft-legal races for the average age-grouper are there?

Just curious…

i’m 19…and…
i’ve never done a draft legal tri - too bad a swimmer to even try to find one.

now, anyways, triathlon is my off season from rowing, so i’m just age-grouping it for fun.

I am a 20 year old triathlete from Minnesota.

  1. No

  2. Draft legal triathlon is fundamentally different than non-draft legal races. First, it’s short course; I haven’t done a short course race in two years. Secondly, cycling strength is downplayed. Slowman discusses this in an article called “Sharks and Cheetahs” or some such thing. Thirdly, triathlon is an individualistic sport. Drafting is completely contrary to individualism. Triathletes tend to be athletically individualistic. Fourthly, draft-legal triathlon is not authentic. Tingley wrote an article on the Olympics’ lack of authenticity in this month’s “Triathlete”. I quit running track in college because I have no desire to run another sub 5 mile - ever. For further criticism search the forum achieves. Fifthly, the races are too short.

  3. USAT should have a spring break camp for long course athletes. Money would be cool too.

  4. Yes.

  5. Have a U23 National and World Long Course Championship in a non-draft format.

Caleb

i’m 19, and ive been racing for 5 years.

  1. never done a draft legal race. 2. because it basically comes down to who can run, and thats not a tri. 3. i think im pretty involved, but if you mean in the draft legal style, you might as well get rid of it, because if i want to draft, i’ll go to a bike race. 4. yes i knew, but it would be cool to get some for a non drafting tri. 5. its tough to force people to race, i try to get my friends to race all the time, but they have to want to do it. so to make people want to do it, try to get races made public other than ironman. if people see olympic races on tv, they won’t think they are as tough as im and might consider doing one.

Howdy, I’m a brand-spanking new triathlete. I’ve done the distances in training and found that in my fledglingness Slowtwitch is by far the best soure of info.

I’m 20 years old and come to triathlon from a strong running background - my swim time for 1.5K is still about 45 minutes but I’m working on it.

I would certainly like to receive info on draft-races and potential funding. But I think the most common problem in finding racers is cost:

-race entry

-travel

-and certainly equipment

These expenses can mount up easily past 2000 just for one’s first effort (I know). To appeal to more newbies (who may also happen to be poor) maybe to show a side of racing that doesn’t involve a 1500 dollar bike and a 300 dollar wetsuit. Show a photo of the guy wearing the simple stuff and riding the beater.

Wrapping your head around the distance is hard enough, getting the wallet around the cost shouldn’t be so hard. I mean, c’mon, I was told the triathlete community was very inclusive.

Tom

How many Juniors read slowtwitch? If you are a junior or U23 (athlete aged 16-23) please post to this thread and answer these questions…

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon?
    no

  2. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it?

  3. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)?
    from canada…so nothing?

  4. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?
    i’ve heard about a few drafting camps, but there are no draft legal races around here…so what’s the point

  5. How can we get you and your friends to get involved?
    as dave said, make more races (don’t make the current ones draft legal…make new races) lower entry fees. more weekends in the year and a fancy new roadbike would help too :wink:
    We (USAT and USAT Coaches) seem to have a problem getting the word out and attracting more young talent to the sport. I don’t want this to be a political thread about if we should be supporting juniors, or coaches, or going to worlds, or finding the next olympian at ncaa swim meets, or whatever. I want to hear from the athletes themselves. Freestyle?

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon?
    Yup 3,

  2. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it?
    New Zealand Junior sprint nationals u19 (wanganui), New Zealand Tri Champs u19 queenstown), Canadian Nat. junior champs (magog). It was fun, those 3 races were the hardest I’ve ever done and all very hilly as well.

  3. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)?
    Lower entry fees ($5 for under 19 would be nice), get tri teams goin in schools, do what they have done in ontario and now the rest of canada with the Kids Of Steel race series.

  4. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?
    only by surfing the internet ALOT!

  5. How can we get you and your friends to get involved?

Same as question 3.

Also to those who think that the bike leg is nullified by making drafting legal, who won the 2003 worlds (mens) and how? Seems that people who haven’t even done a draft legal race do all the complaining about them. All the draft legal races I’ve been to have very hilly courses and if you aren’t a good cyclist you get dropped right away. Drafting adds a tactical aspect to the sport and therefore makes it enjoyable in its own way and also more interesting to watch.

Mike

While posting on a chat line is something I do not make a habit of, I feel your posting deserves a response since you have been a funded under 23 athlete for more than a year under the generous USAT under 23 program (of course a program strongly opposed by both Lew and Dan). I understand your frustration at being left off the team under the new selection for 2004 but I want to assure you that the selection was based purely on performance and absolutely nothing else. As National Team Program Director I value the College system very highly (and so do my staff). I was a senior lecturer in Sport Science for 19 years at a university in South Africa before taking on the position in the USA and have been known as a person to encourage “education first”. I believe the program manager of the USAT under 23 team concept, who by the way has a doctorate in chemistry and a MBA from Stanford is testimony to the strong belief in and support for education. USAT cannot be labeled as an organization that does not place education in high regard. Quite the contrary in fact. But, in the selection of teams and funding, high performance IS a priority but we do also cater for different entry and access for athletes as some may choose to enter the sport at a serious level before or during college but we have seen athletes making a huge impact on the triathlon scene AFTER college, and we are there to support all of these athletes with the programs we have in place. Sheila Taormina and Andy Potts are perfect examples of this.

I feel it was necessary to make this statement on behalf of the staff of the USAT National Team Program because it is counter productive to our efforts to have an incorrect message being thrown out into the open. Also, we at USAT do welcome and in fact encourage constructive criticism, as it is the expression of the needs and wants of the membership that will help us grow the program (s) in the right direction. We have taken note of many of the suggestions Lew and Dan have made and I believe they will be encouraged by the steps we are taking to build on the positive feedback they have given us.

Libby Burrell

National Team Program Director: USA Triathlon

libbyburrell@earthlink.net

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon? Yes. A few USAT U-23 events.

  2. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it? Not enough girls were in the event (Nationals at New Hampshire).

  3. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)? Under 23 Draft Legal wave at most big Olympic events (Including Age Group Nationals). This would get more kids involved and would help young ITU aspirants make a smooth transition into the pro ranks. Under the current system, young age group stars enter a competitive abyss if/when they turn pro. Too good for age group but not good enough to really “race” the draft legal event.

  4. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?
    Yes. I have been to a few.

  5. How can we get you and your friends to get involved? See above. Make draft legal races more accessible. I don’t think taking $20 off the entry fee makes much difference. The problem is getting to some of these secluded areas (Michigan/Arkansas/New Hampshire/etc.) for a stand alone draft legal junior event. If you could package a draft legal junior event with an existing (hopefully urban) olympic distance event, then participation rates could rise, especially with the younger kids where daddy or mommy could bring the kids along for both of them to race. What incentive does anyone have to travel to a “championship” where only five girls show up? To say that five girls would form an adequate “pack” to race a draft legal style event is silly.
    Katherine Niblett KANiblett@aol.com

Contact me back channel if you want some feedback, I am working with a group of “Youth” that will soon be juniors and have a lot of feedback I can provide you on their feelings about how USAT is handling attracting new youth and juniors.

Mike

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon? No.
  2. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it?
    Not a fast enough swimmer. I’m headed for long course.
  3. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)? Nothing for me personally (My U-23 days are past). USAT faces a lot of competition in the market for young athletes, especially when parents have other avenues through which kids can earn college scholarships. If I was a parent with a youngster who could swim and/or run and could encourage them to a) swim b) run or c) triathlon, what would I do? Running has a high injury risk for a young kid before they even get to college. Swimming could be a ticket to a college scholarship AND has more opportunities than triathlon at the Olympic level (we can send just as many 100m breastrokers to the Olympics as we can triathletes). Triathlon has no college scholarships and offers only three spots per year for an Olympic dream. And based on what seems to be playing out, especially with the girls, these spots are going to former college swimmers who can run and bike a little bit on the side and who probably never even did a triathlon as a junior, let alone some draft legal event. Olympic dreams and college money aside, it is just not practical to go shuttling around the country to all these junior series events. More local opportunities would be nice, but the 16-23 yr age groups are not exactly overflowing at non-drafting events. In short, the whole draft legal thing is just not that appealing to kids because there is not much going on and the opportunities for advancement are limited. I suppose the Australian model of an intense, centralized program for young kids is the way to go if you want to increase depth. But on the women’s side, how can you argue with the our current results that have been the product of relying on good college swimmers (Barb, Shiela, Zeiger…etc.)
  4. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?
    Yes.
  5. How can we get you and your friends to get involved?
    I think we need to ask that question about the 13-14 year olds rather than people like me. By the time kids get to my age, it is too late (unless we are talking about female swimmers). On the guys side, some of the talent that gets funnelled into collegiate swimming and track/xc needs to focus on triathlon in high school. There are PLENTY of great runners and swimmers in the USA who could make us the deepest country in the ITU world, but they all choose running or swimming because these sports can fully pay for their college education. So how to get these kids involved (and their parents to go along with it)? Find a way to pay their way through college.

22 year old on my quest for ITU racing

  1. Have you ever done a draft-legal triathlon?

Not yet,

  1. If no why not? If so, what race and did you like it?

**Afte kidding myself at long course racing (1 Ironman, 4 1/2 IM), I began focusing on short course with good results. The USAT Draft Legal Series info has very few events, and info is not updated. The recent Pleasant Prairie Race is very close to me, but the info on the USAT Site left all the details *TBD. *I think this killed the turnout. **

  1. What could USAT do to help you be more involved (race more, attend camps, etc)?

I think more races are more valuable than camps in terms of turning people onto the sport. Having raced bicycles a number of times, I feel very comfortable riding in packs, so I would rather spend money doing more races than paying for a camp. USAT should team up with Carmichael Training Systems, or some company like that to offer discounts for online training, for athletes who demonstrate the desire to race ITU, but who can not make the commitment to applying for the U23 resident team.

  1. Did you even know that there were draft-legal races for you and camps and regional and national funding to help you?

Yes, but they are few and far between, and not promoted very well.

  1. How can we get you and your friends to get involved?

I think their are a lot of people like me on the fence whether or not to turn Professional, given the lack of races within the US. It is easier to justify being a top age grouper and racing non-draft races in the area (from a cost standpoint). Like I stated above, more draft legal racing, and incentive to “step up” to the next level of competition.

Feel free to contact me for additional input.

Adam Feltz

Thanks for the feedback everyone and I hope others will chime in.

Great points about lowering entry fees. This is a problem not only for juniors, but adults too. It just costs a lot of money to close down parks and roads for races. USAT does offer a small stipend to race directors to put on youth and junior events so maybe that money can go to further reduce the fees to younger athletes. However, the race directors are still not fully behind adding special waves or doing new races for young athletes because so far, the athletes aren’t showing up. It’s a catch-22. However, we do have some race directors who should be thanked for putting on draft legal races around the country. And there are more and more starting up.

Some people said they didn’t know where to find the info. Start with www.usatriathlon.org and look under Age-Groupers- then Youth / Junior / U23. We are working on the website and it is not completely up to date. Another place to look is your regional usat website. Finally we have Regional Athlete Development Coordinators in each region who are there to help you find opportunities in your specific region of the country.

Draft-legal- yes, any junior or U23 athlete can compete in these races, they do not have to be “elite.” However, nationals are only draft-legal for juniors / U23 because that’s the way Worlds is. We have been a little behind on an international level because we have been so slow to adopt this format of racing. If our youth grow up in the sport with draft-legal racing, we will be much more competitive on the world stage. While there will probably always be non-drafting races locally for these age-groups as part of adult races, it’s best for our athletes, our country, and the spectators (parents and friends who come and watch) if the youth are racing on circuit courses where they can be seen multiple times in the race and are allowed and taught to draft.

Bad swimmers- don’t be scared of draft-legal racing. Just last weekend in Wisconsin the girl who finished second in the race came from way back from a slow swim with the fastest bike and run. Especially if there are other slower swimmers in the race (which there usually are), drafting allows you to work together to really ride fast and reel in the fast fish swimmers. Like someone else said, drafting makes it more fun with tactics. And don’t think that drafting means that it’s always easy or eliminates the bike, quite the opposite. If you’ve ever done one, you know.

Funding- USAT does offer some funding for our elite juniors and U23 athletes to train with our national coaches and attend races nationally and internationally. Regionally there are some grants available as well, but those come from the regional USAT federations, not national USAT. Promising juniors might also find support through their local bike shops, running stores, pizza places, etc. However, like any sport, triathlon is not free- bikes, shoes, travel, race entries. But, some local teams have been formed to help young athletes pool their resources to travel and compete. Heck, even a local swim meet is 20-30 bucks once you pay for each event. Hopefully race directors can find a way to off-set some costs and offer more race opportunities at lower entry fees around 20-30 dollars instead of 60-80 bucks.

Relays- great idea and one that has come up in my discussions with other Juniors. Great way to get more people into the sport and foster the “team” atmosphere.

College- USAT values the college system as the best place to “develop your weapon” in a single sport, and of course get an education! There are a few scholarships in Colorado Springs now for triathletes, but by and large, the USAT coaching staff encourages young athletes to go to college, get a degree (we all know you can’t make much of a living as a triathlete as it is), and still compete in triathlon in the summers and after college. We fully support the Collegiate Championships as well. But we also need the Junior and U23 programs and youth triathlons to wet the appetite of young athletes headed to college so they come back in the summers and after college. Without strong teams competing on the international stage at a young age, the learning curve can be steep for talented athletes once they end their single sport careers and focus on triathlon. The Junior and U23 programs give these athletes international experiences that they can build on in the future and pick right up at the top of the sport after college.

Keep the ideas flowing and feel free to contact me with your ideas. I have been the Regional Athlete Development Coordinator in the Mideast region for just over a year and have recently taken on a new position of National Athlete Development Coordinator. My job, a slightly funded contract position with USAT, is to help the Regional Coordinators (who are volunteers) get the word out about their programs and help distribute our limited funding to each region. I work with Ric Rosencranz, our National Select Team Junior Coach and Program Coordinator, and Libby Burrell, the National Teams Program Director, on these initiatives. I live in Cleveland, Ohio.

Scott Schnitzspahn

no draft legal tris yet. there just aren’t many events here in WI for that. there aren’t even that many tri’s in general which is why i went to bike racing. also, less competition, if any at all at tris around here. more events would be the main thing, and lowering costs. 40$ is a lot for a race when i can race 2 races a day for an entire weekend of bike racing for less than that.

didn’t