In working with the files from my new Polar S625x I’ve seen some interesting things graphically depicted in the upload data from the HRM to my PC when I view the charts. I kind of knew these things before from just watching the numbers on the monitor while I ride a Computrainer, but it is interesting to see them in writing- graphically depicted. During an interval, as my heart rate *and *cadence are increasing they seem to be a somewhat parallel progrssion- along with speed. However, as soon as I switch to the big ring speed continues to increase, but for some period of seconds both cadence (obviously) and heart rate level off while speed continues to increase.
I wish I could post the chart here, but I don’t know how to upload it…
Yup. After paging through three years of Computrainer workouts stored in The Athlete’s Diary (from Steven’s Creek Software) I have pretty much deduced my optimal cadence is 88 rpms.
On a simple level is this not just that a larger gear means greater employment of the anerobic system (predominantly muscular) and less of the aerobic system. Meaning that the heartrate lowers as the muscles become more dominant.
I'm not sure exactly what you're seeing, but interval training is where I really like my Powertap. I've found HR varies to much from day to day lags effort changes too much to be useful for short intervals. Speed isn't vary usful either, too course dependant.
With power readout its pretty reliable from day to day. I know that I can hold 210 watts for 20 minutes. Without power I would start too hard. One of the best things to try with a power meter is to warm up on a trainer then do a eight minute interval hard. Dont look at the powqer output, but strive for even power output. When you look at the graph I guarantee that you started way too hard and slowed down considerably at the end.
Finally with a power readout staring yo in the face on say a 20 minute interval where you are holding say 210 watts your body/mind will try to minimize the effort necessary. By that I mean you will select the cadence and gear that feels easiest to maintain 210 watts, without consiously(sp) trying.
and if you continued for a longer period of time or repeated the interval a number of times you will find the effect more pronounced but PE will increase. As you get more tired hrt will drop in relation to PE and speed (harder to keep the pace up) This is my observation only (I am not a sports scientist etc.)
One of the things I like about the Polar files is the ability to review rate of recovery. Check the recovery intervals to see if recovery is at the same rate after each repeat. My own experience is the higher the load (in terms of gears) the slower the recovery after a number of repeats has been done as fatigue has set in, but if I increased rpm and stayed at lower gear combo recovery rate stayed much the same throughtout and I attained a very similar speed. This is much more relevant in road racing where you need a bit of juice for the field sprint at the end, or so I hope anyway.
Powertap is my next purchase for the purpose of evaluating the value of these contraptions. I am waiting until I meet with this fella from the Discovery Channel Pro Team down at the P.R.O. Training Series in Georgia next week. I’ll be down there all week with those guys so I am looking for the crash course in training with power.
Yup. After paging through three years of Computrainer workouts stored in The Athlete’s Diary (from Steven’s Creek Software) I have pretty much deduced my optimal cadence is 88 rpms.
Something Frank and his PC disciples fail to acknowledge in the quest to validate PC usage… Cadence should be chosen to minimize energy expenditure (i.e. fatigue), not to minimize HR or O2 consumption. At sub max intensities, HR/O2 is not a limiter.
The thing you dont see is that you put more strain on your muscles, which may hurt you on the run. From what I understand, you need to practice the higher cadence so that you are used to the higher HR. I believe Lance went to a higher cadence because of the muscle loss after cancer/kemo.
I wonder if HR will eventually come down if you regularly practice higher cadence?
I have found is really tough to grind it out at like 40 rpm in a big gear, it feels hard, but its difficult to get the heartrate up even after many minutes. In a super high cadence, like 120, the HR jumps up like crazy.
I admit I have only ridden with my new HR monitor a few times, been on my trainer like 10 times with my monitor and taken spin class with my HR a dozen times, but I can be really hurting and suffering at low cadence and be hard-pressed to get my HR above 150, but standing or spinning I can get it up in the 170s and it feels much easier (on the legs of course, after a while the lungs are burning). This is common, I think.
I’ve noticed similar effects simply by watching the HR and cadence.
As others have noted I was always under the impresion that you’re using two different systems. Your “Optimal cadence” is going to be dictated by the current “fitness” of each of these systems.
I’m talking completely out of my ass here so bear with me.
Take a runner with a fairly strong set of lungs, but no strength.
More than likely he/she’s not going to be able to push a big gear, but probably be able to hold a fairly high cadence with a little work. His/Her optimal cadence is likely going to be fairly high.
OTOH lets take a person who is part weight lifter, part basketball player or some other “jumping sport” with less aerobic. Likely they will feel more comfortable at a lower cadence using more “power” less “lung”
I have no idea exactly why the physiological terms are here but in my mind it makes sense and falls into my experiance and that of several other people I know.
In my case I was a runner first. When I started biking it was fairly easy for me to hold 95+ RPM’s for a long period time and be breathing hard. As soon as I started trying lower gears at a lower RPM my HR would drop as well as my speed. It took a couple of years of fairly solid riding before I could hold a lower HR, lower gear and same pace as the higher RPM higher HR…if that makes any sense to anyone but me. Some other friends of mine have had similar experiances coming from a running background.
To me it’s a bit like different types of weight lifting. Low gear low RPM stuff is like heavy lifting. I’ve worn my HR while lifting a few times and sure enough heavy lifting does not make my HR go up very high…but it hurts. OTOH High RPM work is like doing light weights fast, this does make my HR go up. In the end you do the same amount of work, Say 5 x 200 lb squats in 1 minute vs 10 x 100lbs squat in 1 minute. The later would result in a higher HR than the former.
Someone who knows should correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the idea behind a higher cadence has to do with blood flow/lactate/lactic acid clearance from the working tissues.
Very commonly there is a sweet spot between cadence and power. My coach (former pro cyclist) told me that when things start to hurt (good pain wise, not injury wise) to try and push a little more, often there is a point where it becomes a tad easier and you are still going faster. I notice this most on the hills where 240 Watts feels really bad, but if I push to 310 it is more sustainable. Weird, but true…
I have had a PT for about 3 years, bought it used. I think the biggest usefulness is indoor training. it takes some of the guess work off. For regular season I’m pretty un structured. I try to get in one long ride every week or two and as many group hammerfests as possible during the week.