It’s called threat assessment. If you lack the judgment to determine a significant threat from a non-threat, then maybe you should ride the bench (ie; desk job where you are removed from dealing with the general public) or retire. When you start treating people as being beneath you, you are no longer serving the public interest. Your attitude of “he would’ve gotten worse from me” is both appalling and unacceptable. You are a public servant and as such you are subject to public scrutiny. And like it or not, the public does fund the dept. Does that give any rights to dictate policy, not really. But we do have the right to call you out on BS and make you accountable for it.
Actually there are a bunch of riders on this forum that carry guns when they ride. It was a thread a year or so ago about which gun was best to carry during thier bike ride.
I still can’t believe people carry guns when they ride, but, yes, they do.
De-escalation, he?
Rule is:
Leave them Police alone, that is what LAWYERS are for. (
Especially if you have the cell-phone and on top of that a couple of friendly witnesses)
From what I read here the “Park-Ranger” was wrong, and the cyclist decided to join…
If I was required to wear those shorts every day, I’d probably act like a dick too.
and really, other than having this guy fired… could you do much worse than make him wear those shorts for the rest of his career?
didn’t think so…
WOW NineElevenBravo, you’re quite the cop!, I woulda done worse to him thats great to hear from a public servant… I’ve come up against cops like you before and you know what as a law abiding citizen I refuse to be threatened by someone who is supposed to be protecting me, I’ve filed and aggresively persued complaints on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM and I even managed to get one officers badge stripped.
You may be in an authority position bud but guess what the law is just as much on my side as it is yours and as long as I’m following it you can’t do a damn thing, if more citizens realized this the world would be a better place.
Wow, astonishing comments from the gallery. So there’s no confusion, I share 911B’s opinion.
A cop is morally and legally responsible for the safety of a civilian that they are arresting or encountering. The police are trained to know how to take control of a situation because an out-of-control situation isn’t safe for any one. If it were my sworn duty to ensure the rights of a citizen, be they criminal or victim, some smart ass moron wouldn’t have the opportunity to put me or the citizen I’m in control of in danger. Thank god cops don’t have the naivety to say ‘oh gosh, cute outfit, I’m sure you have something constructive to add to my traffic stop, come on over and get involved…’ Instead they have the grave task of having to be effective in a situation that ostensibly involves someone’s life or health.
That’s the thing, you all cry about getting a stern handling by a cop, but you can’t honestly think that police are trained and educated to just be dicks, can you? Sure, some are, but, as a profession, they are highly trained and go to work everyday expecting to be put in situations that are by definition not safe. Think about that for a second. They’ve figured out that nipping the unknown in the bud immediately prevents it from escalating into something even harder to control in a non-fatal manner.
Its the reason that you don’t want the army policing your own town, their priority in a situation is not the same as a police officer’s. The military puts a very firm stop to unexpected variables, cops are trained to use tactics that are slightly more reversible, like cuffs, or a tazer, if you’re lucky.
That being said, its also possible to take control of a situation in an inappropriate way, but only those that have had the responsibility and/or training are qualified to say what is/isn’t appropriate.
A good citizen would get a ticket and rejoice that the system works.
This is getting comical now…I am not out trying to get anyone BUD 
All I said was in this situation, from how I read it, I would have done worse i.e taken him to jail for breaking the law.
Good luck and your badge hunting
Very well put tkonecny
.
Just a few things to clarify my own point of view here
I do believe what the cyclist did was wrong approaching a cop while he is in the middle of a stop of any kind is dumb plain and sumple a more prudent thing to do would of been to simply pull in at a reasonable distance from the cop and wait for him to finish his traffic stop, and return to his vehicle then waive down the driver and tell him/her what he though of the situation and if she plans to dispute the ticket etc.
HA HA badge hunting good one NineEleven. I don’t “badge hunt” I simply hold police accountable to the same laws they hold me accountable to, that can’t be argued as unfair by anyone with any sense
Im just messing with you dubsey Im not going to even touch on why you have been contacted by the police so many times :), but your post actually made sense. I agree fully with everything you said.
Try not to judge so quickly next time, eh?
Fair enough, sorry if I painted you with the wrong brush. I’ve dealt with a fair number of cops on a fair number of occasions (some warranted some not) and dealt with some great cops and some bad ones (all walks of life have them) and the tone of your first post irked me. I’m always compliant with cops and answer all the questions (I’m legally required to) and have never disputed a ticket thats been warranted.
Its just a shame to here of the corruption and peoples poor dealings with police as it helps neither “side” really, bad cops breed negativety towards authority which causes more bad dealings with cops due to citizens acting out in inappropriate and illegal ways, which in turn makes for more jaded police officers and so on and so forth. It obviously needs to come from both “sides” and the best way I know to do that is to hold everyone accountable for their actions in any situation cop or citizen
Thats my opinion anyways
Wow, astonishing comments from the gallery. So there’s no confusion, I share 911B’s opinion.
A cop is morally and legally responsible for the safety of a civilian that they are arresting or encountering. The police are trained to know how to take control of a situation because an out-of-control situation isn’t safe for any one. If it were my sworn duty to ensure the rights of a citizen, be they criminal or victim, some smart ass moron wouldn’t have the opportunity to put me or the citizen I’m in control of in danger. Thank god cops don’t have the naivety to say ‘oh gosh, cute outfit, I’m sure you have something constructive to add to my traffic stop, come on over and get involved…’ Instead they have the grave task of having to be effective in a situation that ostensibly involves someone’s life or health.
That’s the thing, you all cry about getting a stern handling by a cop, but you can’t honestly think that police are trained and educated to just be dicks, can you? Sure, some are, but, as a profession, they are highly trained and go to work everyday expecting to be put in situations that are by definition not safe. Think about that for a second. They’ve figured out that nipping the unknown in the bud immediately prevents it from escalating into something even harder to control in a non-fatal manner.
Its the reason that you don’t want the army policing your own town, their priority in a situation is not the same as a police officer’s. The military puts a very firm stop to unexpected variables, cops are trained to use tactics that are slightly more reversible, like cuffs, or a tazer, if you’re lucky.
That being said, its also possible to take control of a situation in an inappropriate way, but only those that have had the responsibility and/or training are qualified to say what is/isn’t appropriate.
A good citizen would get a ticket and rejoice that the system works.
I kept reading and reading and waiting to respond and put it that well and I’m not even a law enforcement officer. You know…sure growing up through the highschool years I didn’t respect cops, but let me tell you, especially after 9/11 and after maturing, I try to give them a lot of respect.
And to the OP and everyone with negative comments I ask you to think for a second. Imagine you are in a dark parking lot and someone hits your car so you approach them, looking around and observing the environment because you would rather live than get their insurance information, then someone else approaches you (spandex or not), how defensive / protective would you become?
Now take that and add in that people generally don’t like that man in the blue suit.
Anyway…hats off to the good officers out there, and thanks for putting your life in harms way to protect tthis spoiled society that we are accustimed to
That is a very fair opinion. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions whether they are a cop or not. I apologize for my first post, but I am human and I would be lying if I said that the publics perception of police isn’t hard to swallow at times. I just wish people could actually see what we do and deal with on a daily basis.
So when I read all of the post’s automatically judging what the ranger did it bugged me. Not one person looked at the totality of the situation and though “hmmm maybe it was the cyclists fault.”
I have people yelling profane things at me every day, I have been followed home, I have had people threaten my parents and so on. I take it for what it’s worth and except that it is all part of my career choice. I just try to be a good human being. Cops as a population are very guarded individuals and tend to only hang out with their own kind, so to speak, becuase the general public hates us.
Off topic but that is why I love triathlon as a sport. I love being healthy and active and around non police personel, it has probably been the best thing that has ever happened to me.
anyway…
"The problem is that you have people who are trained as warriors working in direct contact with the general public. IMO, it’s the “code red” mentality of the training (valid for obvious reasons) that leads to MOST of the police brutality (invalid for obvious reasons). **Police officers are fearful because it’s drummed in to them and most of them have far too little training in actual combat…so they overreact. They should get far more training in de-escalation techniques than in how to survive the potential attack. **
This bike rider was about 99.99999% sure to be unarmed if that stupid park ranger would have considered that for a minute. But he got scared he might be on the receiving end of a beating so he got rough. "
That is a very simple minded comment sir…Ever been a cop? Do you have any idea how we/or this particular ranger was trained? Im guessing you have no idea. Until you do I suggest you refrain from comments such as this.
Bravo, I’ll try not to be offended by your insulting comment. I know that this whole thread has put you on the defensive, mostly unwarranted (you did come off too strong on your first post) and that you are reacting emotionally.
I can only assume you take issue with the 2 parts in bold and don’t know specifically why.
Let me extend an olive branch and state what I had figured was assumed. We have a second hand account and don’t know the truth. So this not being a court of law we take the story as relayed to us as a hypothetical. So just for discussion purposes we are OK to assume that the OP’s story is true and the cop was unwarranted in the traffic stop and berating the woman. In short, he was guilty of harrassment. The spectator saw a crime being perpetrated by the cop. I know that you and practically every other cop out there is really top-notch in their intentions and behavior (and even this guy perhaps because won’t don’t know the truth of the situation).
Someone else said that the guy should have simply waited in the background until the cop was done then approached the motorist. That sounds to me like the absolute best way to have dealt with it.
As for simple-minded…well that’s debatable right? A cop could be simple-minded about his job too right? ie. threat or no-threat, violence or no violence without any nuances. When someone is getting in the way at a traffic stop (of a little old granny let’s say) and simply showing concern for her what is your FIRST reaction? Verbal warning right? In this story that was skipped. After 1 verbal, then a very loud and aggressive verbal? Here’s where I don’t know the cop job but I’ll assume you have a very well specified escalation procedure you follow in these cases don’t you? Someone walks up and you cuff them instantly? And not only that, but you throw them to the ground and forcibly cuff them without any threatening behavior? Of course not…or if so then THAT is simple-minded.
Perhaps it was missed in my delivery but what I wrote was written in large part to defend you and the rough behavior of other officers as part of the training and in response to the perceived threat you face.
As for my comment that the often disproportionate responses are the result of the fear of danger…how in the world could you disagree with that? What’s the justification for that behavior? A threat to your safety! How more cut and dry could it be? Did you think that I was commenting that you are scared and peeing your pants?
And BTW I was referring specifically to instances of police brutality (read it carefully) and by DEFINITION these are unlawful, unacceptable uses of force by the police and they are disciplined for it when there’s ample evidence. So take a case where cops with nightsticks hit an unarmed man because he won’t put his hands behind his back. (not that you or any good cop would do this). But this is because they are unwilling (afraid?) of getting hurt themselves while trying to do their job…because without the weapons and a submissive perp, they have no superior position and are in a situation where they might get hurt. Perhaps you’d say instead that police brutality is simple anger/hatred/evil…but I prefer to think that it comes from normal human motives…so perhaps in saying what I said I was giving cops more credit than you are? (ie. attributing those rare unlawful acts by cops to fear instead of something worse).
Any way, to whatever degree I’m simple-minded I would love to be shown why from a guy that knows the subject rather than being insultingly dismissed.
And an interesting side note (interesting to me because I like philosophy). Suggesting that since I’m not a cop I’m not qualified to comment on this stuff is a logical fallacy called the “argument from authority”. By that same reasoning you must now take back everything you’ve ever said about government, politicians, economics, the stimulus plan…because you are not a politician or economist and therefore not qualified to comment! 
Take care.
The gang might have to re-evaluate the training load of said ride (even if they grabbed 10k of elevation gain in NAS-T winds).
I hear they were rollin’ the big meat, but only one lengthy stop allowed on this route; that would be Julian for apple pie!
Tomorrow, the stop is Dudley’s Bakery. Leaving Mir Mar Lake at 7:30am
All welcome.
KP
Nice shorts, cop.
In H.S. my sister’s boyfriend used to bike everywhere. Not a seroius cyclist by any means, but pretty hardcore without even trying. The suburb in which we went to school had bike cops, pretty new for the time, but only on weekends(?!) They traveled in pairs. Anyway, this dude (my sister’s BF) was riding his bike home from band practice. Jazz band practice. With a trombone. A freakin’ TROMBONE!!! Apparently, he did something that broke the law/rules of the road and they went after him.
He smoked ‘em like Lance vs. Pee Wee Herman… WITH A FREAKIN’ TROMBONE!!!
I’m surprised that I didn’t read any posts that consider the fatigue state of mind of the biker. What was this cyclist doing… perhaps he had low blood sugar and his judgement was impared. Lucky for him he had cool headed friend that talked the cop out of ticketing him or arresting him. If this biker is a doctor, perhaps a little self reflection as to what led him 1) to be on a narrow, no bike lane road, endangering himself and occupants of other vehicles, 2) in a mountainous area perhaps without proper nutrtion or rest, 3) endangering his career as a doctor by quite frankly breaking the law by interfering with the cop.
The advice that one poster suggested which was to witness what the cop did, and wait until the cop was done and then offer assistance to the people in the pulled over car is much wiser. They could have even taken pictures. I truly hope that this doctor reflects on this from a different perspective then he had when he offered his assistance. Bearing witness to an incident is noble, and if things get out of hand, such as the cop actually physically abusing someone, then make a different assessment. But it seems to me there were a series of judgements that were made by all of the cyclists that put them in the wrong place, wrong time, type of situation. These types of judgements do not help the overall cause for cycling, good relations with law enforcement and good relations with occupants of other vehicles on the road.
If he is a doctor perhaps he could have offered the cop some help in making a assesment of the drivers condition. This could have diffused the situation in an entirely different way. I know this sounds ridiculous, but he could have said to the cop, ‘I’m a doctor do you want some help to see if this person is sober’, etc. And then explained to the policeman how much better it was that this person didn’t pass earlier do to on coming traffic. Purely hypothetical approach. But one that is far less confrontational.
You can try and report it to IA but I can guarantee you nothing will happen. The IA investigator will ask what happened. Then he will say “well a cop pulled over a lady for doing nothing wrong, and I walked up on him.” Cop will say " An unknown citizen appraoched me when I was on a traffic stop and I felt for my safety" End of IA right there. Cop gets a pat on the back.
The lady who got pulled over might have a better complaint, but I can promise you nothing will happen. He won’t get disciplined in any manner. If anything they may say “Good job” I am not trying to be a dick, but it is just the reality of this career.
And that’s the real problem right there isn’t Bravo? Cops are all too willing to lie to make everything go away. Its the Good’ole boy club and citizens are just a nuisance, right? The truth is any Joe Blow off the street with sub-standard IQ can become a cop, and the sad reality is they often do. I am not saying every cop is this way, I know a few who are decent folk, but most of them fit the bill and have the short man syndrome to prove it.
“Cops are all too willing to lie to make everything go away. Its the Good’ole boy club and citizens are just a nuisance, right? The truth is any Joe Blow off the street with sub-standard IQ can become a cop, and the sad reality is they often do.”
I can speak for myself, when I say I personally don’t lie to make things go away. I can’t speak for this cop in particular. I have no idea what he would say in an IA type interview regarding this incident. All I am saying is that if he indeed was in fear for his safety, then his actions were warranted from what I read.
If he were to lie and say that, when he in fact wasn’t in fear for his safety then that is a different story, grounds for termination. But to say that we are a Good’ole boy club is wrong. But if by Good’ole boy club you mean we look out for one another, then yes we are. However we don’t do it at the expense of others.
I am sorry that you feel that anyone can become a cop. No wonder that the public has a poor perception of us. How do you feel about fireman? Can any joe blow become a fireman?
I can speak for myself, when I say I personally don’t lie to make things go away. I can’t speak for this cop in particular.
And yet the truth of the matter is what was the 1st thing that went through your mind in your message, aka he WOULD lie or more to the truth that would be your 1st reaction if you were in his shoes, which is exactly the context by which your wrote that. It sucks, plain and simple.
But to say that we are a Good’ole boy club is wrong. But if by Good’ole boy club you mean we look out for one another, then yes we are. However we don’t do it at the expense of others.
I can only hope the above was meant tongue in cheek and you accidentally forgot the pink coloring. I think the below linked articles says all that has to be said, though there are an infinite number of other examples if you would like more…