So assuming that’s the case that the female Kona did sell out, and 10-15% of them just don’t start, that’s even more of a raw deal to pull slots away from a higher participant group and give them to a lower participant group with a high likelihood of not even racing. You might suggest it’s almost violating a responsibility to the community of Kona who is “buying” the attendance and expecting to see that money spent there.
That hasn’t been what I’ve observed - having groups moving at significantly different speeds interacting is quite a risk. Which is why the local race (which is typically the fastest event in NZ) asked for help.
IM make it really hard to extract all that data, which is why I haven’t already done this.
For the race I analysed there were start orders that would increase the amount of drafting at each time check and others that would decrease it (which is the natural trend in a mass start).
The argument breaks down once you look at it from a non-ideological perspective. I remember now going down this debate-road before. The very same logic that can apply to equal assignement based on gender should apply to equal assignment based on age groups. There’s no reason why young, poor athletes should have less slots awarded to them, and likewise, while older end of life athletes who might not even be healthy enough to race next year should get less slots as well, simply because there are less of them. For that matter, we could also divide up slots by ethnicity and socio economic status, or by BMI for that matter.
When you draw lines, someone always feels left out.
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As a general rule: If they are a for-profit company and say they didn’t consider the $$$, they are lying. If they say that they calculated how much it would cost them, but determined there were mitigating issues (long-term brand value, media deals, social pressure, etc.) then I believe them.
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I could see part of the discussion very precisely being said, “let’s not look at the economic perspective, but what makes the most sense…”. And then framing the debate that way just to flesh out the details without the budgetary sword of Damocles hanging over their head.
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Well, I mean, it is equal from a math standpoint. But I also understand where you’re coming from.
We’ll agree to disagree. And eventually meet up in person for an adult beverage or three about it.
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But it isn’t, you proposed 1300 AG women and 1000 men’s slots (excluding legacy). In no possible argument is that equitable.
I didn’t, I put 300 slots for various initiatives including but not limited to WFT, so Lord only knows how IM would divide them.
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Well since there is ONLY WfT currently your argument has no merit or basis in fact.
My argument with “no merit” is based upon the conversations we just had with IM and DeRue prior to the announcement.
But sure.
Right so DeRue told you prior to the announcement they were going to start a program that is disproportionately weighted to men to offset the WfT slots in the 300 you’ve allocated for “initiatives” ? Interesting, can you share some more details on this new program that is launching in the next 2 months? Would love to hear more about it.
Maybe they are launching a corollary program called Ironman for Gymbros?
i imagine its the same pool that allocates the local Kona lottery slots, various slots given to charities, IM foundation slots, sponsor slots, celebrity slots and whoever won the Biggest Loser that year.
It wasnt a failed experiment.
It was a failed money grab by Ironman.
Glad to see it all back in Kona.
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Consider that it was always going to be this way and that giving more World Championship Slots was never going to grow the business. Well, unless it was more men since there were not equal slots distributed based on participation.
Confusing comment. IMWC has been disproportionately weighted to women. Women make up 18% of Ironman’s registrants right now…but is that in 140.6 or Globaly? Would say it’s even lower at 140.6. 18% of 3000 is 540.
I’m not sure you ready the full exchange between Ryan and I. That may help clarify the comment.
You clearly have very strong feelings about this, but what he proposed was in fact equal. 1,000=1,000 no matter how you feel about it or what the demographics are.
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Care to articulate why once you have those 1000 female slots you don’t EQUALLY allocate them among the female age groups and then roll into the other age groups what’s not taken?
You’re making a strawman argument.
The line is already drawn by the race categorise (age and gender).
Equal slots per AG does have its argument whether we like it or not. In fact that’s what World Triathlon does for AG.
People like comparing Ironman World Championships to other sports or to professional sports (“the tour de France isn’t in Italy”, “a world championship should be selective”, “Boston doesn’t rotate every year”).
Although in fact, when compared to other amateur or professional sports world championship, Ironman does very little of what the other sports do.
- Olympic games: equal slots by gender (event distances do occasionally differ by gender). Location changes each edition.
- Many professional sports: equal numbers by gender. Or equal slots per country per gender.
- World triathlon amateur champs: equal slots per AG per country. Location changes each edition.
- World marathon majors world championships: qualification mainly by time. Location rotates.
- Granfondo world championship: qualify by position (first quarter of AG). Location changes
- World master swimming: qualifying times by AG for some disciplines. Location changes
- World master athletics: no requirements. Location changes
- World master games (summer, winter): no requirements. Location changes
Ironman has its own thing and they’ve built a pretty successful business around it.
The reasons IM WC are the way they are is about business, logistics, branding,… Surely not equality.
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Yep, but as @rrheisler put it somewhere above in this thread “I just don’t view that as the “right” thing to do, given that IM is a quasi-governing body and not just a race production business”.
All these other examples you gave do differently and focus less on business as they are governing bodies. One issue is that Ironman had fought to court to have some of the privileges of governing bodies but give you the ‘we’re a business’ card whenever it suits them (most of the time).