Build up to LA 2028 and World Triathlon ITU Thread

Not disagreeing here, but asking – what would you do with Knibb to help in her in the areas where she is lagging?

I don’t for a minute think that, “stop trying to run a fast marathon” has anything to do with why she’s so bad at transitions and group riding. She literally raced all the short course stuff long before she was doing the distance stuff, so it’s not like “get more experience” in short course is what she’s lacking.

I’d look at it from a drill it and kill it perspective where she just needs to repeat certain drills over and over (with a coach on deck?). My point being the area where I see Knibb lacking is she gives up nearly a minute in some races on things that have virtually nothing to do with Ironman training.

And what are those things that you see she is giving up that isn’t related to IM training?

Because it was clear as day her slow swim exit-T1-T1 mount-1st 3-5 mins of bike were slow and very very very likely because she just came off of IM training. But again NO DUH she had a slow T1, NO DUH she lacked explosive power at T1, she just came off IM training. WTF would she be doing any of that prior to the last 5 weeks in any IM training plan? Lol she literally stops in T1 to put on socks w IM, “fast” is not part of the training plan. Back to that peaky “demands of competition” - IM and itu are complete opposite training plans (duh). You guys love to debate sport specifity but more often than not that matters. But I know yall will argue it.

So recognizing that of course she’s rusty, so now it’s a matter of how long does it take to go from peak IM form to peak ITU in the same season. That’s what this July Hamburg race can imo showcase. We basically just saw that 5 weeks isn’t enough time to be in peak form. Can she find that in less than 3 months (which is the time between IM TX and LA Games)?

So the rub for Knibb, the MTR is the least financial success for athletes. She’s no longer going to score top 5 itu results, so she’s never going to make any money on the individual side, and if the MTR is only 10% medal worthy, she won’t make any money with MTR either. So is she really going to go “all in” on itu in the summer months? I would almost ask, why? Lol just go LC and race a bunch of races where you are guranteed to finish top 3 at this point and make a shit ton of money. ITU for Knibb is becoming more and more square peg, round hole. Again she may end up on the team, because no one else is going to push her out. And if that’s the case, thumbs up. But this idea that Knibb is going to be an itu “weapon” is foolish imo. Not if she continues this IM + ITU seasonal back and forth. And I’m perfectly fine to agree to disagree on that stance.

I guess you feel that Ironman training means you can’t have a fast transition then. To me she lacks coordination and agility.

I don’t know why you think training for an Ironman has anything to do with being unable to practice a flying mount or requires you to put socks on, etc.

Are you making the argument that she is such a high volume Ironman distance trainer that she just can’t find the time or is too exhausted to practice flying mounts a few times a week?

The point of my comment was that the classic fast twitch slow twitch training debate is irrelevant when it comes to simple transition stuff. That’s got nothing to do with whether or not she did 4x20 minutes on the run 3 weeks ago when she is just bad at the basics in transition.

I don’t think you need to spend a ton of time at those. (but maybe individually, she does?)

So here’s what Knibb is looking at: her previous coach, OB was daily coaching w her. So when they worked on itu specifics he was there an hour before putting 1k cones in a parking lot to create a crit course. He was there setting up T rack to setup T practice. It can totally be done solo but she’s going to have to do all the parking lot recons or just ride imaginary courses to work on handling and or pull her agent Pat along to help randomly etc.

She will need to max out her 3s-30s bike power and get her run time considerable faster than what her current fitness is at. She will be doing it virtually where she likely did with DL for the 6-8 months prior to Paris when they worked together and won MTR medal

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Ya, I’m not debating there isn’t a specificity in that vs IM training. Obviously so. But the point was for an Ironman athlete there was a lot of low hanging fruit she can grab to be in a much better spot and she should at least be doing that (maybe she is, but it doesn’t seem it)

This is where demands of competition come in. The fact that you can’t understand that is a you problem. You don’t need to be doing weekly T skills or mounting skills in IM training that is a requirement in itu. Always go back to demand of competition and build your plan around that. IM and itu are nothing alike, I can’t help if you can’t recognize or understand that. Shrugs

You don’t need a fast transition in IM….that’s the fucking point. So it’s not going to be a priority. Full stop. As I said you’re a fan of the sport, your very surface level understanding. And no shit your a lawyer or a doctor or whatever in real life….that a your “expertise”.

So I’m not saying she couldn’t do mounts in IM training. I’m saying it’s not fucking necessary thus a complete waste of time for an IM athlete to do. DEMANDS OF COMPETITION

you know what itu athletes aren’t doing? Working on 5 hour TT position sustained tempo power…..guess what DEMAND OF COMPETITION they care way more about hitting max power 41 times in an hour ride week after week. Something an IM athlete would never do.

I believe you have said you’re an HS track coach. I hope you don’t coach/train your sprinters the same way as distance guys. There is very little crossover. You start getting to mid distance and it’s a little more crossover training etc Insert itu / IM / 70.3

:roll_eyes:
Thank you for all your help: you’ve made more effort than any reasonable coach would.
Matthew 7:1–5 KJV

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Sorry if it goes over your head too. As I said I’ll put my coach of an athlete against yours any day of the week. Loser leaves ST. You make snide remarks and talk all this expertise. You should easily out coach me right Pick 2 random ST’ers long course. Short course whatever you want to out coach me in. This could be absolutely fun. Thread on training w/ weekly updates, each athlete giving updates, “why” this workout and that workout from each of us (I mean the community can all learn from your expertise yes, they can just snide remark at mine all they want) etc. Your demands of competition understanding vs my demands of competition understanding.

If you don’t want to take the challenge keep my name out of your replies moving forward permanently. I certainly won’t ever reply to a comment of yours either.

You are on a very high horse about this based on your strong feelings about her.

I asked some questions and gave my view and you’re exploding all over the place at everyone.

Demands of competition are just bizarre to point to as a reason why she has with few exceptions been sub par at transitions. I understand you don’t need to sprint through an IM transition. But it’s not like Taylor is totally confused if she was running a 10k race you don’t go out at IM pace. It’s not like she’s not capable of redlining a run through T1 or knowing, ok I can save some time and not put on socks here.

That’s literally one of those you can do both things (do IM and understand socks in short course).

I was genuinely curious what you would do as her coach and the closest I got was some cone work out of you. The rest was just argument that of course IM and Olympics are different and you returned to your hobby horse of that issue.

Which again, I wasn’t debating short vs distance specialty, but for instance, I wouldn’t tell my 200m girl to wear those short distance spikes in the 1600. That’s a pretty simple change you can make without going into the anaerobic vs aerobic difference and leg turnover difference etc. with sprinter and distance. You jumped right to that nonsense, which I was literally looking for practical coachy suggestions.

I assume the way you work with your athletes is less triggered?!

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I want the US to fucking win. Winning = medals = better funding. Better funding helps our top elite national team members all the way down to our junior team programs. So hell yeah if an athlete wants to race ITU, I want them to be in the best damn shape to put the best team forward to win,

The fact that you can’t distinguish IM training and ITU training is pretty much precisely why you keep coming back with stupid comebacks.

I specifically said I’d work on 3s-30s power, if you think that’s just cone work, just stop asking questions,cus it’s completely over your head. I’d also work on the high intensity run training because she’s going to have to runs with the likes of CB and Potter (and 14 other ITU women), where currently at 10km she is 2 mins back of. You can probaly break it down to 5km / 3km / 2km etc splits, so with that she’s probaly what 20s behind them at a MTR run distance, 5 weeks post IM? 5 weeks until Hamburg.

I work with my athletes the way I work with my athletes. In 3 years now I’m set to coach 28 athletes with no paid assitant, and the happiest group of kids on our campus according to the administration on our campus who interacts with I think 21 different sports.

Repeated stupid ignorant shit is what is annoying as fuck.

You make a lot of blanket assumptions about others. As for me and my legs, time to jump on the bike trainer. Until next time!

Blanket assumptions? I take in all the information I can, then make the most informed decision I can.

Knibb is an fantastic athlete. It’s very clear she wants/needs to race all different races to stay motivated. She literally said that pre Texas, so cool. If that’s how she wants to do it, by all means, good. So her demands of competittion juggling the different distances are going to mean she’s going to be chasing drastic training stimuli differences throughout the year, and going up against others who are more “specializing” in said demands of competition on a more regular basis. So she’s going to by default have a higher likely bar doing it that way when she’s bouncing back and forth between the highly different race programs. We literally just saw that in a race before our very eyes. But again NO DUH she just came off IM training, so she needs more time. And that’s the beauty of all of this. She’s going to literally either meet the demands of competition and be this beast of an MTR leg that ST experts think, or she’s not. She has 5 weeks to Hamburg to make sure she crushes it. Maybe she will, maybe she won’t, that will be up to her coach and her over the next 5 weeks. It’s not really complicated what she needs to work on, so again the great thing is we will get to see if she does. I think it is going to be very hard to juggle IM and itu all in the same season, some of you ST experts disagree. Cool, so lets see how Hamburg go. If she kills it, then she proves me wrong. If she struggles, there is no winning here. USA NEEDS KNIBB, no one wants a 92% effective Knibb, US affliated people all want/need Knibb 100% firing on all cylinders. She is going to be critical for *currently a low chance of an US medal in the MTR. I simply contend the more an athlete adds IM + ITU to their resume, the less likely they are 100% effective at either. I laugh that apparently that’s some controversial statement. But again the people who seem to disagree the most have the least amount of coaching experience in this thread; whereas pk, Diablo, Sheridan haven’t disagreed much on that controversial topic, and I’ve been put in my place before by those guys (T30 for 3 spots OQ ranking a few months back etc). So if I’m wrong, cool. I just find it odd the most argumentative are the people with the least coaching experience in this sport. (Cue my “fans” pov take from a few days back imo)

So there’s not going to be a ton of crossover so IM training is going to help her endurance capacity 100%, while limiting her “anerobic” ability that is needed in key phases of an itu race. So when I showed specifically where her IM training as probaly limited her initial itu success (that 5-7 mins of swim exit to 1st 5 mins of the bike), and you argue well can’t she just do T training in IM, it’s like “that’s not how high level training works”. So when you dismiss demands of competition, your not worth taking serious in a conversation. So peace

You want coachy things?

-3s-30s power efforts whether on a trainer or out on the roads. Conventional wisdom on knowing the min accelerations you will need in a race is count the corners x # of laps. So if it’s 8 laps of 9 corners, that’s a potential of 72 hard accelerations that your likely going to be getting close to max effort. They may not all be max efforts (some corners may just be more flowy so there may not be an actual hard acceleration, than a dead turn that is going to be much more hard braking + hard accelerating out requirements), but if you do workouts to prepare for that you know your getting close to being ready for the demands of competition (damn that pesky term). The closer to the front you are in the group there is less accordian and less total time you need to accelerate out of the corner vs the person that is last in a 20 person group, they are accelerating for much more time to get back onto the wheels. The 1st few mins of any bike leg are absolutely critical, especially at the MTR, because that’s either where you can get in a small group and accelerate away from the 1 person who got dropped, or it’s where you absolutely know that 3 people are 13s ahead of you, you then have to go max acceleration to close that gap. Knibb looked sluggish on this, but again she likely isn’t dialed in as of yet, so that makes sense why she could only ride wheels for the 1st lap and then when the groups converged, she was ready to take a bunch of turns and pulls at the front. She’s just missing that fast twitchy top end accelerations *right now…..but again NO DUH she is only now doing likely itu training (reason why she said she wasn’t ready for Yoko with only 3 weeks after IM TX)

-1x a week doing an itu style (crit work) to work both handling and the fast accelerations out of corners (the “cone thingy”) you reference, 180* work, normal L/R turns, etc. USAT used to have this double dead turn protocol with times and such to help athletes recognize how important coming into the corner, cornering and then accelerating out of the corner is. I think it was 100m with 2 dead turns on each end. They did that for about 5 years, I know Pearson’s did it (I did the test for him at the OTC back in I think ‘18 or whatever year it was he 1st came into the sport), I’m sure every national team member did it back in the day (pre covid).

-T skill practice that you are rusty at- (which she is). Whether that’s doing 30 push ups (or 10 burpees or 20 jumping jacks, anything to get your HR up so your not “fresh”) and then sprinting into T1 to mimic swim tiredness. Or just doing continous mount/dismounts over and over. There’s no “workout” that is the golden ticket. It’s where are you and how are you then going to meet demands of competition. Build workouts to bring the 2 together. So if your at a point your stopping to get on the bike, guess what- your going to be doing some flying mounts in the next few months to make sure that doesn’t happen again. That may mean a progression- week one running with the bike, next session running w/ bike + hoping on, next session running with bike + flying mount + 400m all out while trying to get in shoes potentially, or that progression is done in 1 session. Again it’s all on where the athlete is and where they are struggling. So if it takes more time to progess, then it takes more time, if they get it in 1 session, guess what your now moving on to another progression (go 3 mins max effort while getting into shoes, etc or whatever).

-High intensity run training- again that planning is more where are you currently compared to the competition (that pesky demands of competition). Every coach on earth probaly has a different plan of action, so whether it’s 400’s / 1k repeats, combination, that’s probaly more individualized among the coach. And hell it’s going to be individualized to how the athlete can adapt and absorb the training, there is no “one size fits all” plan.

-Swim is there. So keep doing what she is doing, she finickly of the FP swimmers has really random missed FP swims in her career (both OG’s), sometimes due to bad starting position (picked wrong spot or not among the 1st to pick so maybe default gets stuck with a bad spot). I believe she still works with Julie Dibbins swim squad there in Boulder (GJ may or may not do that as well sometimes?).

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The “coachy things” are pure gold. Strongly prefer this type of post to fighting with a few other forum members…

Fully agree with this, and (together with the transitions proper) is what is often Gwen’s undoing. For Taylor, because she is so strong on the bike, it is slightly less of an issue as she can use her power to get back into the race (especially these days without the upfront ride-away train of Jess Learmonth, Flora Duffy and co).

Taylor’s issue is run speed (and the fact it’s unlikely she’ll be able to distance herself from a front pack at the Olympics like she did to qualify for Tokyo for example).

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What’s wild about that Yoko AQ was if during the test event if Kz and Kasper don’t crash each other out, they both likely qualify (they were top 8 nearly 2 mins ahead of Summer Rapp). If that happens Yoko 3rd spot would have only been discretion. So she may not have even made Tokyo as likely it would have been Spivey for discretion (so no Summer Rapp in that scenario). So much credit goes to Knibb and OB her coach at the time for going all in on it. Funny enough I was talking to him virtually live while it was happening as he was on site. Back against the wall and you produce which she replicated with the monster Paris MTR leg. I just hope she can replicate that but a ton of examples point to IM back to itu is really really hard to nail to a medal worthy level. Spirig may have raced 1 random IM during either London build or Rio build, I know she did some 70.3 races in between, can’t remember if she did actual IM(s)? Knibb if this plan stays the same she will have 7 IM’s minimum from just post Paris. Again how people don’t think that would affect itu faster paced work is beyond me, but touche.

again they’ll one day do a 30 for 30 on all the wildness that was the Tokyo test event and the randomness of all the different events within that race and the associated career changes it caused. I’m just glad Kasper got Paris cus KZ stupidly crashed her out by losing focus and riding both basically into the metal barrier and Kasper I think broke a few bones and obviously missed Tokyo.

I think her bike will be just fine for the relay. and she will close a deficit (if there is one after the first male) and realistically only gtb Lindemann and lombardi and potentially szalai might be as good or slightly better than her. and in a smaller field her bike works better. I mean even 2024 she did not manage to break Lindemann and potter on the bike…
what she has to do , and as she has suggested is to be more willing to think about race tactics and not just riding a bike, and that is already a weakness in technical courses in t 100 .
so in short her short course weakness are also her middle distance weaknesses , as Pat correctly says, she does best on a straight out and back course in middle distance … she needs learmouth to guide her through the technical sections on the bike in t100 races.
solution more bike races, training more with proper cyclists.

is the MTR stopping at T2 or is there a run? As theorized, you can probaly “fake” a 1mi run to some degree, but there is also a real accountability that 4th leg if a gap at hand off may not be able to close that. Weird things were going on with Pearson’s bike ability in itu season prior to Paris. So the beauty and the curse of the MTR- your race ability is tied to all the other relay members. As I noted, pretty much only 1 of the 4 for the US will only race ITU, Pearson/Spivey/Knibb will be juggling other race series and demands. But again that’s all because well they can make a shit ton of money at other races, so fair play. But just something to note when your talking about strategy/expectations in the bigger picture. I kinda nervously laughed when I asked in another thread, where has Pearson been. Then I found out he’s coming off an injury and so of course his 1st 2 races are back to back weekends non-draft races, coming off an injury. I don’t think I’d put that in my “coachy things” rolodex, but I guess that’s one way to be “all in on LA” as Kyle from PTN said he is. Moral of the story- the US team certainly is going to have some very intriguing story lines for the majority of the expected team, the closer to LA we get. So back to regularly schedule itu non-American specific chatter we go. We can pick this up post Hamburg to evaluate what her performance (and Pearson) looks like that is basically the same time frame for ‘28 between an April IM and a July MTR race.

Yes this is called athletes having to meet specific demands of competition.

Start lists out next Tuesday
But focus is on16th June in Charleston before Hamburg.


Two laps for the elites. Four 180s. Hope Knibb has not been neglecting her TT bike during this ‘revert to SC phase’ till T100 Vancouver in August.

not bad data for an african cup, last weekend , solo ride , air temp about 28degrees.
at a guess I would say 61 kg (no idea what power meter) . I used to coach an athelte that was racing against her mom about 18 years ago. So I was aware off her early ( and still today iam always smiling when she swims well as her mom was not exactly a fish, and more a duathlete, she won a medal a duathlon long distance worlds )
Theresa I belive was 15 th in alghero last year and 10th this year.
if you struggle to read its 306 watts average 309 normalised power (sprint distance)

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Yes, with a variability index like this my first thought was: it can’t have been a pack ride for sure!