Bud Selig (MLB Commissioner) had BETTER attend this weekends games in Milwaukee ... + Hank Aaron facts

The Coffee Shop
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Bud Selig has yet to say whether he will attend this weekends games in Milwaukee (his hometown) when Bonds plays there (Fri-Sun) and is within 2 homers of Hank Aaron’s (Selig’s friend) all-time record of 755 bombs.

You, I, and other fans can say what we want about Bonds, but Selig isn’t that fortunate, as he has other “responsibilities”. He stood by and did noting while baseball became juiced on his watch. During his “reign”, Sosa hit 60+ homers 3 times when it had only been done twice before … in 70 years! McGwire hit 70 in '98 (Sosa hit 66), when 61 was thought to be next to impossible. A short while later Bonds hit 73.

It took Canseco’s book, and Caminiti’s admission (and estimation that 30% of MLB players used steroids) to really spawn an aggressive action to ridding baseball of steroids. Guys (Matthews, Jr., Bell, Grimsley, etc) continue to be linked to steroids via the online “doctor-website” loophole w/o punishment, while a few minor leagers get busted via positive tests.

For him to consider not being there as a means of showing his disapproval of the record is “hand-washing” which cannot be done given his lack of previous action.

It’s ridiculous for him to think he can take a stand NOW after all that’s transpired previously.

FWIW, Bowie Keuhn (Commissioner in '61) did not attend Maris’s (61 HR) breaking of Ruth’s single season record (60 HR) out of protest. The situation is a bit different because Ruth’s record came in a 152-game season, and Maris’s occurred in a 162-game season (hitting the record breaking shot after the 152nd game). For years after, Maris’s record would be accompanied by an asterisk.

Hank Aaron is one of the most interesting players in MLB history. To say he is under-appreciated is an understatment. To many of growing up he was the guy that “got the record because he played so long”, and was regarded as second-fiddle to Willie Mays. However, Hank was MUCH MORE than and MUCH MORE important than that. Here some Aaron facts (from this week’s SI article) …

  1. When Aaron was drafted from the Negro League’s at age 19, he hit “cross-handed”. In other words he had the wrong hand (right) on top when batting. Aaron is widely regarded as the best 'wrist hitter" (fast, strong wrists) ever, and it’s speculated that learning to hit “cross-handed” may have developed this. I think I have mentioned this previuosly. It’s just one of those strange things that is actually true.

  2. Aaron, when drafted in 1953 possibly faced even harsher treatement than Jackie Robinson did in 1942. When Robinson broke into MLB, the furthest south any of the teams played was St. Louis and Cinncinnatti. Aaron played in the minor leagues in the heart of dixie, and was escorted out of the stadium each night by a teammate carrying a bat.

  3. When Aaron hit homer #711 (approaching Ruth’s record of 714), there were 1,362 in the stands. Amazing.

  4. Not one of Aaron’s single-season HR total is in the top 68 of all-time numbers, yet he is the current all-time leader.

  5. Not one of Aaron’s single-season RBI totals is in the top 100 seasons all-time, yet he is the current all-time leader in RBIs.

  6. His best season for extra-base hits is not in the top 40 seasons all-time, yet he is the current leader of extra base hits for a career.

  7. Aaron has the all-time record for total bases (1 base for a single, 2 for a double, 3 for a triple, 4 for a homer), and considers this record his greatest stat … showing that he was a complete player. Aaron compares himself to Stan Musial, not Babe Ruth.

  8. If you take away ALL of Aaron’s 755 homer runs he STILL has 3,000 hits. (That, friends, is simply amazing)

  9. Pick any star currently playing (including Bonds) and GIVE him 180 home runs, and Aaron STILL has more total bases. Staggering.

Aaron impresses me with his high character and integrity. The article rightly points out (IMO) that it will take Bonds breaking of Aaron’s record (using steroids … see other threads in this forum) for the baseball public to realize just how much it took for Aaron to hit 755, and how great of player (not just HR hitter) he was. Bonds will get the numerical record, and in a strange twist of fate, Aaron will be regarded as the “people’s champ”. Strange since Aaron was despised by many for years for replacing beloved Bae Ruth as the greatest HR hitter ever.

Interesting guy.

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One more Aaron fact:

Pitcher Tom House caught HR #715 out in the bullpen at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.

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Bonds will sit in the Midwest so he can break the record in San Fran
.

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You’ll appreciate this:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6454

Bonds breaking the record doesn’t mean much in the history of baseball, his name will just appear first on the list. Baseball never forgets (Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, …) and Hammerin’ Hank will be the King until A-Rod nears the mark.

What makes you think A-Rod is clean. The Yankees organization has had way more than its fair share of doped players. Why not him?

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Who died and made you the doping police?

Do you think Barry, A-Rod, David Millar or whoever have somehow stolen something from you by “doping”?

Crybaby.

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Matt,

I’m going to have to agree w/ you on this one. Not that I think A-Rod is dirty … only that I don’t think we can presume anyone in this era is “clean” … perhaps even my beloved Pujols.

In looking at ARod, we can see that as a prep star he was 6’3 and a little over 200. He’s always been bigger ('specially for a SS), but he’s muscular and he’s lean and continually healthy. It’s a shame we have to look at everyone like this, but that’s reality. Not all steroids turn one into the Hulk, some just boost recovery, which is (IMO) their #1 sporting benefit … especially in long sport seasons.

We have guys that have some evidence against them, and some without. Some are more obvious than others. I wouldn’t bet my house on any of them. But, in ARod’s defense, he’s been steady throughout. If he’s as good at 40 as he is at 32, I’ll really start to wonder. But, as it is now, his stats indicate he’s a modern version of the great-talented athletes of the past … by “in the past”, I mean, of course, before Dianabol and other steroids became “muscle candy” in the 70s (Dianabol in the early 60s).

Like I said in another post, when guys like Grimsley, matthews Jr., and David Bell – FWIW Evan Fields err Evander Holyfield was also on that list --are on the sauce (and how easily/readily they can obtain it without – most times – detection), who couldn’t be? I admit, sometimes I even wonder (to myself) about Ripken’s longevity playing a demanding position (same thing with Ivan Rodriguez, even though IRod is viewed to be the most genetically gifted freak catcher ever. For quite a few years, he would go back and play in winter leagues after the MLB season. That’s insane … especially for a catcher). It burdens me to have to think of athletes like this, but I have a good sense how athletes think, how competitive they are, and how they hate to lose/disappoint. It’s crazy, but if ARod only hits 625 homers, he may be viewed by some as a dissapointment (Sort of how some may view Junior). We’re already “awarding” him with 800 homers, he just has to go through the motions to get there. We’re pretty arrogant.

This is the era of modern sports. IMO, comparisons to former eras are no longer reasonable.

Interesting. The other day I was going to start a thread about how history will view Frank “Big Hurt” Thomas, who at one time was suppossed to be the next Ted Williams and settled for being a great hitter, and (perhaps) the last one to hit 500 homers without being questioned of PED use.

I know it will read corny, but it hurts me to think like this. I love the game of baseball.

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Probably … actually, most certainly so.

He will sit Saturday b/c it’s a day game after a night game.

BUT (<–) if Selig and Aaron BOTH refuse to attend (and Aaron has already declared he won’t be there),I can just see Barry “sticking it” to Selig and Aaron by breaking the record in Selig’s hometown and in the town where Aaron played. Nobody likes to be boo’d more than Bonds well, besides Rickey Henderson and Bonds, I mean.

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If he’s as good at 40 as he is at 32, I’ll really start to wonder.
Funny, if he’s as good at 40 as he is at 32, I’ll wonder less. We’ve all seen what long term steroid and other PED abuse does (look at McGwire’s and Bond’s knees and other joints, for examples). For ARod to be juicing that long without damaging effects would be remarkable.

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Funny, if he’s as good at 40 as he is at 32, I’ll wonder less.

It’s an interesting point. I expect ARod to be good at 40. Honestly, if he’s still hitting .315-45-125 at 40yo, I don’t know what I’ll think. (more below)

We’ve all seen what long term steroid and other PED abuse does (look at McGwire’s and Bond’s knees and other joints, for examples). For ARod to be juicing that long without damaging effects would be remarkable.

Good point. If ARod is healthy his whole career and performs at his steady great level, that would work in ARod’s favor. I should have said if he gets BETTER at 40. =)

I think I have made comments on here before about a “pattern” that seems to take place with steroids users. They are talented and have a good/great career going, their career explodes for ~3 years where they put up unbelievable numbers, they have injuries that lead to their demise/retirement.

I think when you look at the performance/injury pattern of Canseco, Caminiti, McGwire, Bonds, etc that holds true. Makes me wonder about other guys like Howard Johnson, Bret Boone, etc.

Comments?

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  1. If you take away ALL of Aaron’s 755 homer runs he STILL has 3,000 hits. (That, friends, is simply amazing)

  2. Pick any star currently playing (including Bonds) and GIVE him 180 home runs, and Aaron STILL has more total bases. Staggering.

Forget about the steroids for a moment. Those last two facts are just amazing. I knew Aaron was a great all-around player, but those stats are crazy.

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Who died and made you the doping police?

Do you think Barry, A-Rod, David Millar or whoever have somehow stolen something from you by “doping”?

Crybaby.

Nobody.

I just find it interesting that its OK to call Bonds a doper and nobody else.

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I just find it interesting that its OK to call Bonds a doper and nobody else.

Matt, I know you don’t see this like the rest of us, but …

  1. No other big name athlete was involved with a Performance-Enhancement company that got busted for distributing steroids and has been linked with numerous other stars that are now serving suspensions by their governing bodies.

  2. No other athlete has a personal trainer serving jail time for steroid related charges and not being willing to testify.

  3. No other athlete had grand jury testimony leaked where they admitted to unknowingly taking steroids.

  4. No other athlete obliterated the single-seaon home run mark, and is approaching Aaron.

  5. No other athlete has had the career explosion at such a late age, along with the physical transformation.

I mean we can say ARod might use, Pujols is balding rather early isn’t he? and other questions like that, but NONE of them are in situations anywhere near close to Bonds. You can label it all speculation, etc … but the arrows pointing to Bonds are much more significant than they are to any other player. So, I don’t agree that just b/c you say Bonds is a doper you have to others are. Whether you acknowledge it or not, there’s a whole lot more evidence pointing at Bonds than there is any other player.

I think most peopple call McGwire and Sosa dopers also. If Sosa were at 753, we would likely see the same folks saying “Doper”, even with Sammy’s “everyone likes me” image.

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Who died and made you the doping police?

Do you think Barry, A-Rod, David Millar or whoever have somehow stolen something from you by “doping”?

Crybaby.
What say ye now?

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  1. If you take away ALL of Aaron’s 755 homer runs he STILL has 3,000 hits. (That, friends, is simply amazing)

This stat never ceases to amaze me. I was thinking of this last week while reading Howard Bryant’s excellent peice on ESPN.com about Aaron’s 75th birthday.

As for A-Rod, I can’t say that I’m surprised but will say that out of fairness, the other 103 names in the list from '03 should have been released as well instead of just his being leaked. I’d imagine some of the same names already appear in the Mitchell Report but they should have all been put out there.

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Who died and made you the doping police?

Do you think Barry, A-Rod, David Millar or whoever have somehow stolen something from you by “doping”?

Crybaby.
What say ye now?

Matt, that’s pretty good! I had completely forgotten about this thread. Gotta give you props for calling out A-Rod in 07.

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Who died and made you the doping police?

Do you think Barry, A-Rod, David Millar or whoever have somehow stolen something from you by “doping”?

Crybaby.

*** What say ye now? ***

I’m just glad that at least Lance is clean. :slight_smile:

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"I’m just glad that at least Lance is clean. :slight_smile: "

There are still 103 names we don’t know…