Raced yesterday. First loop of the bike I didnt feel much wind at all. Second loop had a decent head/cross wind coming down into Keene. Then slight tail wind at times climbing back. Overall there was a noticeabally different climate between Lake Placid and Keene.
It was really cool seeing these guys out on the run. Brent looked smooth but much more tired than Potts when I saw them on the second loop.
Scott
Very possible that the top pros beat the headwind going down Keene on lap two and all the way to Ausable Forks area and the wind only built up for their way back. This is what I was referring to as favourable wind. If you beat the south east wind day and get your second out and back done early enough, then you get the tailwind and then you have that riding up High Falls Gorge which is an absolute disaster windtunnel on the cold North West wind days…when you get the South Easterly and beat it to the turnaround even age groupers can big chain ring a lot of the climb back and there is limiter aero penalty. But if you are a bit slower than the pros, it sucks going down Keene as you get buffeted and lose a ton of speed and the entire “flats” are a tough grind before you finally get the tailwind for the climbs home. But I’ll take the South East wind any day over the North West on that course.
wind was actually NE and around 10 gusting to 15 from around 11:30 am onwards.
felt it as soon as you got on the flats out of town by the horsegrounds and all the way out… definitively affected speeds on the Descent and was a bit of a kick in the teeth from keene to Ausable forks. for reference point, I am 52 and rode a 5:47 bike split
You’re all assuming that he hasn’t tried a more aero position based on your eyeball tunnel, and a lower more aggressive position isn’t worth it based on real tunnel data.
maybe you’re right. Heck, maybe he calculated his w/CdA and found it favors his current position that is more upright than my road bike position… but probably not.
Maybe he was able to get comfortable being uncomfortable in that position?
It definitely isn’t “eyeball aero” or “ST approved”.
Can we put Brent’s engine in the Murphy’s Law position and take the converged man-aerodroid to Kona and finally break Stadler’s bike course record and out run Mecca to shut both of them up?
You’re right, I was being reasonable. My bad, carry on.
You’re all assuming that he hasn’t tried a more aero position based on your eyeball tunnel, and a lower more aggressive position isn’t worth it based on real tunnel data.
It wouldn’t be Slowtwitch if the user’s couldn’t find fault and offer suggestions to help a guy who finished IMLP in 8:13…
I distinctly remember an instagag back and forth last year in which Brent stated that the reason for his position being like that is because it allows him to “run better off the bike” or something along those lines. And he pointed to his Brazil run as something he could not have done if his position were more aggressive.
I can’t find the exchange now or the side profile shot that induced it. But I remember thinking “wow…” when I saw/read that.
I distinctly remember an instagag back and forth last year in which Brent stated that the reason for his position being like that is because it allows him to “run better off the bike” or something along those lines. And he pointed to his Brazil run as something he could not have done if his position were more aggressive.
I can’t find the exchange now or the side profile shot that induced it. But I remember thinking “wow…” when I saw/read that.
Sebi would run 2:32 if he got into Brent’s position
Seriously though, LP is forgiving to less than optimal aero positons. Simon Lessing also comes to mind. You can get super aero on the downhills, by sticking your nose between the aero bar extensions top tube safe, the flats are generally not too windy and you can ride your less than aero position on the slow speed uphills and not give that much time away. Kona is a different animal in terms of giving away time on the bike with a not great position.
My guess he’s trying to make a statement. He says he hopes to race to his potential in Kona this year, so that appears to be his main focus, putting together a great Kona race. Hopefully this effort did not jeopardize that. Very impressive time all around!!!
Cementbottle…let’s get Brent some depleted Uranium bottles for his Kona “training heavy race lite” program!
I’ve been riding the old out/back when training in Placid as it is a more scenic, less busy, better surface road. I think it is hillier though. Also noticed that they now have a little stub out/back near the bobsled venue?
I think the reason they didn’t go back to the old out/back was permit related? The county line is about 8/10ths of the way into the Haselton Rd out/back… my vote would be to have the course use as much of Haselton as possible and make up the difference with the Ausable out/back.
That’s it, exactly.
When the 10 year contract was up, the town near the end of Haselton Rd wouldn’t renew the permits (I imagine they tried to get a lot more $ out of WTC to do so), so that’s when the course change was made.
I too prefer the old OAB section, even tho it’s hillier and a few minutes slower than the continued “aero GOD” section to Ausable Forks.
That’s it, exactly.
When the 10 year contract was up, the town near the end of Haselton Rd wouldn’t renew the permits (I imagine they tried to get a lot more $ out of WTC to do so), so that’s when the course change was made.
I too prefer the old OAB section, even tho it’s hillier and a few minutes slower than the continued “aero GOD” section to Ausable Forks.
…and here I thought you preferred the Epicman approved 2x Tollgate out and back so you could set the Strava Aero God gold status on the downhill leg…you’re slipping man. Next thing you know, you’ll be riding around in Brent McMahon’s position because it will make you run faster!
Seriously though, faster course or not, that that that Brent posted was simply unreal. Not sure what compelled him to drag race away from Potts on the run course like he had Usein Bolt closing on him hard, but serious kudos all around.
Brent has always sat up a bit “high” on the front end. During his time with Specialized, I am assuming that he spent some time in their wind-tunnel. Sometimes giving up a few aero numbers yeilds much greater power numbers. I assume that at this level, with what he has access to that, as much of what he works with has been optimized. The results speak for themselves.
**My guess he’s trying to make a statement. He says he hopes to race to his potential in Kona this year, so that appears to be his main focus, putting together a great Kona race. Hopefully this effort did not jeopardize that. Very impressive time all around!!! **
He’s been one of the main contenders for Kona the last few years, with one of the best life-time triathlon palmeres, who’s never really had a great race at Kona. Could this be the year?
Brent has always sat up a bit “high” on the front end. During his time with Specialized, I am assuming that he spent some time in their wind-tunnel. Sometimes giving up a few aero numbers yeilds much greater power numbers. I assume that at this level, with what he has access to that, as much of what he works with has been optimized. The results speak for themselves.
But here’s some big pushback on that: just became a pro is riding in this position does not mean he’s invested the time and resources in insuring this is the best position. Yes, we all lose power initially when we go from riding a road bike primarily and then jumping on a TT bike. But with the right constant tweaking, conditioning and persistence with a focus on fit and function, I’d say there are a lot of folks with great bike fits who have largely closed that discrepancy between their road and TT fits.
To say that he’s fast so he obviously knows what he’s doing is akin to attributing “wise” equipment choices to someone being fast… just see DCR’s analysis of which powermeters pros are using; he makes it pretty clear that it has nothing to do with choice, but contracts.
I’m just not buying that McMahon has labored over his CdA in his current position. Now, look over at Jesse Thomas you see someone in an upright position that is aero. He doesn’t look bunched up on the bike, and his high hands contribute a lot to lowering is CdA, and he’s talked about his time spent in the wind tunnel.
Unless I missed it, you all have missed the fact that Brent is no longer on the Specialized Shiv. He’s now on a QR PR6. Would need to see current pictures to see what his fit looks like now. Presumably he would have been fit/tunnel tested on the new bike.
yea, brent’s time was quick…but i’m not sure why. if he wants to have a good kona why did he blow it up so hard once the win was easily in the bag?
Someone said it before, but he wanted to make a statement. He went to Placid to not only beat all of the pros, but to show he is on a different level right now.
I was in absolute disbelief when I saw the gap he had on Potts.
Unless I missed it, you all have missed the fact that Brent is no longer on the Specialized Shiv. He’s now on a QR PR6. Would need to see current pictures to see what his fit looks like now. Presumably he would have been fit/tunnel tested on the new bike.
yea, brent’s time was quick…but i’m not sure why. if he wants to have a good kona why did he blow it up so hard once the win was easily in the bag?
I don’t have any information one way or another, but it’s completely possible that he gets non-trivial sponsor bonuses for things like course records. Also, I think he had an easy bike sitting behind TJ and Potts, which no doubt helped his run.
Not sure we can really determine if ANY change was made, given that he appears to be sitting up a bit while turning away from us. Horrible position to judge bike position from.
Given the bike setup show in the following link, you’re probably correct that he hasn’t made much, if any, change from the Specialized position.
