Is anyone running this setup and successfully got the bottle(s) to reliably stay put? If so, which products are you using?
Anyone seen any data on the aero impact? I understand it’s better not to have the setup too high, so ideally you’d want the bottle angled as flat as possible but then that makes losing them more likely as per the first question.
X lab gorilla… And 200 saddle clamp on JOF … Bullet proof… Won’t release inadvertently.
Re aero data… Plenty of info… Google it… If done well ie tucked close and flat to the saddle then it’s practically zero additional drag… If hanging a foot off the arse as many folks seem compelled to do then it’s an appreciable drag penalty…
I’ve done this two ways (and wish I had pictures to show) and never lost a bottle. I tried many others along the way and they all launched bottles with abandon.
(1) I had a Specialized single bottle mount that put the bottle cage at the same angle as the saddle rails (~45 degree angle to the ground). The top of the bottle was level with the top of the saddle. Used a Profile Kage, and it was always secure but easy to access.
(2) Using a Minoura double-bottle mount, but turned upside down. This put the bottle horizontal instead of vertical. Put the cages (again using Profile Kage) on with the bottle top going forward. Since I rode the saddle nose, a medium size bottle fit just fine and didn’t hit my legs. Not only that, but they were REALLY easy to get to staying aero, and since the bottle were right behind my thighs, they were in “dirty” air.
Fastest between the arms on aero bars.
Just getting my own set up. I’ll be using a Profile Design RM1 that I got from Santa. Not sure if it will launch anything or not, but it looks secure.
Standard reading on the topic: http://www.cervelo.com/...nd-aerodynamics.html
Key paragraph
You do want to keep the bottles (and whatever else you have stored with them) as narrow as possible to allow the air to come back together as fast as possible after it leaves your body. There was not a huge variation in drag depending on the position of the bottles behind the saddle, high or low, near or far. Many people use these systems for storage of tires, tubes, inflators etc. This looks to be a good location as long as they don’t stick out and grab air.
yes but I can’t share the data since it’s not mine to share.
use gorilla cages, those are the least likely to bounce a bottle out.
Problem for me is not the cages (cuz I use gorilla) but the water bottles handed at bike aid station, which are the cheap screw top plastic kind. I never lose a real bike bottle in training. Almost always lose the crap replacement bottle in races, so need something else for 2015 - use a speedfil bta and no frame bottle
I use Gorillas and XLab Sonic for the mount. Never lost a bottle in training or in a race, and I use all kinds of bottles. I also have a Profile Design bottle mount between the aerobats; never lost a bottle out of that either. No idea about the aero, other than there is very little penalty for a behind the seat set-up if done correctly, but I’m sure there’s plenty of data if you dig deep enough. I think Cervelo has a white paper out about it floating around the internet.
yes but I can’t share the data since it’s not mine to share.
Am aware of the benefits of running a bottle on the bars and have been doing this for couple of years. One downside is getting the Garmin in a good position (out of the wind but leaving space on the bars for the hands) with this setup and so I thought I’d re-visit the idea of behind the saddle. Now, in Trek’s Speed Concept whitepaper they reported a big aero gain with this setup i.e. two bottles, not too high, but also using a slightly faired retention mechanism. Unfortunately, it never came to market, but am surprised no other sellers have done so, in that particular form. Who knows…maybe even some sort of patent on it?
The Gorilla cage is worth a shot. In the past I’ve lost bottles with the behind the saddle setup and decided it wasn’t to be trusted. I was using a standard metal (quite dated) cage though and it was at 45 degrees, but not an overly large bottle, maybe 600ml. I reckon if the Gorilla allows a bottle to be practically horizontal there’s likely to be no aero penalty at worst.
There is a really cheap tacx holder available where you can set up one or two bottle cages. Since its plastic I used some glue and extra screws to get the angle fixed just to be safe. Sits close to he saddle, angle adjustable. As for cages…I used profile design ones bot launched bottles when upright angle. Specialized rib cage holds better, is cheap but access is a little tougher. When used the one bottle solution I broke the cage cause of a xl bottle 1litre combined with flat angle and rough bump.
Bta is aero but I really don’t like the extra weight so far out up front, will try the torhans aero whenever it arrives.
Rubber band attached to the cage and looped over the top of the bottle will keep it from launching…even the on course bottles that are too thin to normally stay put.
Another vote for Xlab gorilla cages. All bottle launching issues disappeared immediately, including during races with those cheap plastic bottles. I also use Xlab BTS mounts, for both one and two bottle setups.
I use the also Xlab gorilla cages, but they don’t work well on insulated bottles(Polar or Camelbak)
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Problem for me is not the cages (cuz I use gorilla) but the water bottles handed at bike aid station, which are the cheap screw top plastic kind. I never lose a real bike bottle in training. Almost always lose the crap replacement bottle in races, so need something else for 2015 - use a speedfil bta and no frame bottle
Same issue here. I recently switched my rear end set-up to a single bottle gorilla xt. I always use camel back bottles behind and launching has never been an issue.
My real issue is I typically run the water bottles they hand out at aid stations between my arms (mouth towards me) and they gernally start sliding out once they are about 1/3 empty. Anyone running a similar setup with an gorilla cage with success?
I have a cheap plastic bontrager cage zip-tied to the rails. I drilled a small hole on either side of the opening and used a piece of extra bungee cord from my laces to keep extra tension on the bottles. The bungee allows it to stretch open easier to get the bottle in and out but holds them tight enough to prevent launching. I got the idea from one or Rapp’s bikes but I couldn’t find a picture. I can take a picture later if you want to see it.
I have a cheap plastic bontrager cage zip-tied to the rails. I drilled a small hole on either side of the opening and used a piece of extra bungee cord from my laces to keep extra tension on the bottles. The bungee allows it to stretch open easier to get the bottle in and out but holds them tight enough to prevent launching. I got the idea from one or Rapp’s bikes but I couldn’t find a picture. I can take a picture later if you want to see it.
yep, i do this exact same thing. I use the race lite cages and you don’t even need to drill the cage, just tie the bungee cord in a loop around the arms.
I use the also Xlab gorilla cages, but they don’t work well on insulated bottles(Polar or Camelbak)
I’ve lost multiple bottles over the years. I have the Xlab two bottle setup and Gorilla cages on both; I typically use Camelbak bottles. I credit most of the losses more to road surface than wind. Any time I’m riding a bumpy surface (Texas chip seal) I have to remember to reach back and push them down about every 10 minutes.
They fall out because of bumps. When full, not an issue. When they are almost empty they start to creep out of the cage.
I have a specialized cage zipp tied near horizontal on my mtb (fizik arione) and on my tt bike (adamo.) Both hold most bottles just fine even when riding the mtb off road. Camelback bottles do, however, auto-eject from the cage within 60s but every other make seems fine. For the adamo I drilled a hole in the hook and ran a zipp tie through it to hold the end up then tied the back to the rails. For the fizik i used the slot for the saddle bag clip to hold the cage on.
Iain
xlab and the specialized rib cages. they hold insulated polar bottles and do not eject. they are cheap at $20/each. Used them a whole season last year with no issues.