http://www.bontrager.com/features/aeolus
brand “Z” looks like zipp and the firecrest line
brand “H” looks like hed and the stinger line
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haha
brand Z
they compared it to the 1080 but not the 808 FC
edit: oh wait maybe they did both
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What tire width was used? My understanding of the Bonty rims is that they are VERY wide. And that they do indeed outperform some Zipp wheels (not sure if the tested against Firecrest or not; the CFD plot is clearly against Firecrest, but not sure about the drag plot) with 23mm tires. But NOT with 21mm tires.
Unfortunately, data has now become a way to obfuscate the truth, rather than reveal it.
The new Bontrager wheels are certainly fast. But if you are going to be so blatant as to have “brand Z,” why not actually provide some real substantive data. What they provided is just spin. Though that seems to be, unfortunately, the way that the industry as a whole is trending.
AND worse, HED has the Stinger 7 that would have been great to compare to to the D7, and they didn’t bother doing the closest comparison they could.
Mostly I’m complaining because HED hasn’t put out that data either 
Chris
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the white paper discusses tire width used:
http://media.bontrager.com/images/features/201108_aeolus/bontrager_aeolus_d3_wheels.pdf
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Do you think they used the Firecrest shape to compare on the 3,5, and 7 model because the numbers are so close between those two and then on the 9 series test with the torodial 1080 it compares horribly to the other 90mm wheels?
I proudly own FC CC 404 and 808 and love them and don’t see any reason to change at all but agree that if they are going to be that blatant with the names why not just release more information.
What I really do like about those wheels is the really subtle graphics and styling, the white hubs are also a nice touch.
check out the white paper.
What tire width was used? My understanding of the Bonty rims is that they are VERY wide. And that they do indeed outperform some Zipp wheels (not sure if the tested against Firecrest or not; the CFD plot is clearly against Firecrest, but not sure about the drag plot) with 23mm tires. But NOT with 21mm tires.
Unfortunately, data has now become a way to obfuscate the truth, rather than reveal it.
The new Bontrager wheels are certainly fast. But if you are going to be so blatant as to have “brand Z,” why not actually provide some real substantive data. What they provided is just spin. Though that seems to be, unfortunately, the way that the industry as a whole is trending.
There’s lots of data in the white paper. It says all wheels were tested with the same 23c Bontrager tire except a test in which they used a 27c tire. The graphs clearly specify which Zipp wheels are Firecrest. It looks like they tested at 2.5 degree yaw increments. All charts except one show data from the same tunnel session.
I’d read the white paper before coming down on Bonti too hard; it’s fairly straight forward.
Thanks (and Jack too) for directing me to the white paper. If they provide the data there, why not just slap it on the graph?
FWIW, Zipp has tested the wheels (tested the 5 very early on). According to their tests, which they do with a 21mm, it was faster than the old 404 but slower than the new Firecrest 404. In all cases, the wheels were reasonably close though.
I’d be interested to see a chart with all three wheels with both 21 and 23mm tires.
all these companies are coming out with really fast tubular tires but i could really care less. firecrest still wins in my book just by having a clincher option.
so does the aeolus 5 it seems. maybe they will expand that offering.
What i would really like to see them produce is a disc.
Do you have any idea how they compare on price (the Aeolus CC and the Firecrest CC’s)?
Wow, another spoked carbon wheel.
the white paper discusses tire width used:
http://media.bontrager.com/...aeolus_d3_wheels.pdf
How do you get past page 3 and have any confidence in any of the data presented in the graphs? The graph on page 3 shows a legend symbol for Easton yet it is not on the graph. If you don’t pay attention to the little things who knows what else is omitted or just glossed over. If the Easton wheel is off the chart don’t show it in a freakin’ white paper (does no-one proof read these at the company before it is released??). If you can’t present the data clearly and above a high school education level I refuse to go past page 3.
in fact the easton and H3 are on the graph, but not on the legend, because they are distinct in that each wheel is available in only one depth, so they are labeled differently.
not that this means I have any particular confidence (or lack of it) in this white paper. But the thing you point to is perhaps, much ado about nothing.
in fact the easton and H3 are on the graph, but not on the legend, because they are distinct in that each wheel is available in only one depth, so they are labeled differently.
not that this means I have any particular confidence (or lack of it) in this white paper. But the thing you point to is perhaps, much ado about nothing.
I see what you mean now… I was wrong. Thanks! They should have added Easton to the key though.
I’d be interested to see a chart with all three wheels with both 21 and 23mm tires.
And Hed3 wheels with 19mm tires.
Why are 21c tires relevant? I haven’t looked, but I would assume the Firecrest rims provide lower drag numbers with a 21c than 23 c tire. Rims are getting wider for aerodynamic reasons, which require wider tires (especially for clinchers) to perform properly. Plus the decreased rolling resistance of 23c and 25c tires, especially when paired with the wider (trek, zipp, hed - especially touted by Hed, as discussed in the latest Velo issue) rims, seems to be pretty well accepted with the added bonus of better cornering stability. Not sure if 21c (clincher) tires would even work with those wide rims( I think the warranty on Hed wheels is invalidated with tires smaller than 23c), and the aerodynamics would likely be worse.
What other data are you looking for? It seems that their protocol of testing all the wheels in the same tunnel on the same day with the same tire seems pretty straightforward. I’d be Interested to know what you think Zipp does that is more transparent or provides better data/results (and less spin) than what Bontrager provided.
For some markets outside the usa (and eu in particular) you can’t call out competition by name. Hence brand z etc…if you don’t want to incur the expense of generating separate copy for every locale you plan to market yourself within.