I’ve got a sprint race coming up in which the bike course is two laps of flat sections with three very large downhill/uphill dips in between, total about 12 miles. (It’s the Pacific Coast Triathlon on the Southern California coast between Newport Beach and Laguna.) My bike split is generally poor relative to the guys in my age group who finish ahead of me, and this is particularly true at this race. I rode the course this weekend to try to figure out if I was going something wrong, and I’m now thoroughly confused. I can carry good speed on the downhill portion of the rolling dips – up to 33MPH – but I’m not sure how best to attack the uphill section of the dip. I know I’m not riding these hills particularly well because I was passed a couple of times by roadies sitting up with their hands on the hoods on the uphill sections of these dips. During last year’s race, I would pass people on the downhill (mostly women from the age groups before me) and then get passed back on the uphill.
I’ve tried a couple of different approaches, none of which seem to work particularly well. I’m looking for advice on how I should be attacking these dips, and any associated training that might be appropriate to whatever approach is best. Here’s what I’ve tried so far – which approach is right? What would be better?
Go as fast as I can on the downhill, spinning at 95 rpm, and then try to increase the rpm while downshifting as the dip flattens, and then becomes a hill. I can’t seem to spin through the uphill to get back to the flat section. My pulse goes up rapidly, my legs feel dead, and I either have to slow way down and spin (9-10 MPH), or slow way down and stand to get back up out of the dip to the flat section. And I have nothing left to use to get back up to speed for the flat section.
Go as fast as I can on the downhill, spinning up closer to 110 or 115 rpm, and try to sustain that same rpm or a little higher while downshifting. I get pretty much the same result on the uphill – can’t sustain it to the top, worn out for the flat section
Coast part of the downhill, and then try to spin up to 110 or 115 as the hill portion starts. I get pretty much the same result on the uphill – can’t sustain it to the top, worn out for the flat section
I haven’t tried just coasting and then spinning up the hill from the bottom in my lowest gear. I would carry hardly any momentum into the hill and be passed by many, I’m guessing.
I’d love to practice these dips more often, but they’re an hour plus from my home, and I don’t get down there very often. What is the best approach on deep dips like these? Gear down and get stronger so I can keep spinning the whole time, even while slowing significantly? A few other particulars: I ride a tri bike at a fairly steep angle. I can spin in the aero position, or stand, or sit more upright. All of those positions feel fairly comfortable. I’m 6 feet tall, 170 lbs, 45-49 age group. And yes, Slowman ALWAYS finishes ahead of me. I suspect that would be true even if he flatted during the bike. I know I could stand to lose 5 or 8 pounds, and I’m working to do that before the race (end of July). Other than that, I’m not sure where to focus. Thanks in advance for the benefit of your wise counsel.
I’ll take a crack at this, though I need to state up front that I am a poor climber. I have gotten better recently, though nothing to write home about.
First step is to lose the weight. You don’t sound much overweight from your stats, but if you have weight to lose, lose it. You need to lose it slowly though, so not sure it will help you for later this month.
Next thing to think about is how are you on the run? I used to get pounded on the run. I am now doing much better on the run, especially when tired, so I am more willing to push on the bike.
12 miles is a relatively short bike, so I would definitely push up those hills. Pushing down the hills is stupid since you are just pushing thick air out of your way. Energy on the climb goes to overcoming gravity. I would crank it up at the bottom of the hill and push up the hill. I wouldn’t hesitate to get out of the saddle, and I would count on the dwonhills and flats to recover.
If this were an IM race, my answer would be different.
At the end of the day, the only way to handle the hills well is to get stronger. The only thing that gets you over hills is power. Technique, spinning, seat angle and all the rest won’t help much.
There’s no magic your missing. Just power-to-weight ratio. You can improve that by either increasing your power or decreasing your weight or both. The most straight forward way to improve is ride hills whether there’s a downhill before the uphill is unimportant unless your hitting the brakes on the way down. Just find the biggest meanest hill around and ride up it… a lot. Whether to spin up or stand up and power over the top depends on your ability and the length of the hill. Practice both as you work your quads differently when standing. You also go over threshold quicker.
BTS, on a steep bike? Probably should keep to the spinning techniques, even on the uphills.
That being said, here’s what I would do…as you begin going up the first hill…gear down to an easier gear just BEFORE you think you should…keep using this technique all the way to nearly the top of the hill. Near the top, you can go ahead and push hard to keep your lowest speed as high as you can. As the hill flattens out some, gear UP to a harder gear just BEFORE you think your legs are ready. They WILL be ready because you didn’t trash them earlier in the climb. Keep using this bigger and bigger gear technique as you crest the hill by selecting the next biggest gear just BEFORE you think your legs are ready, until you get up to good speed (upper 20’s). Now TUCK as tight and low as you can and rest those legs. It doesn’t matter if you’re only going 30 mph in your tuck when you could be going 33 by pedalling. You need to recover from your previous uphill effort, and to be rested some for your upcoming uphill. On the next uphill, remember to start the climb in one gear easier than you feel like you need to…rinse, and repeat.
The goal here is fourfold: 1) maximize your slowest speed near the top of the hill by having legs that aren’t trashed by the earlier climbing…spinning easier gears does this 2) push hard to get back up to speed over the crest and on the early downhill…this is where so many people are trying to get out of severe oxygen debt brought on by climbing the previous hill too hard, too early, and you will pass some people by going strong over the crest. 3) don’t spend power fighting lots of air resistance…that’s why you tuck instead of pedal at higher downhill speeds. 4) be recovered enough to do it all again before the next uphill hits.
Simple thing to remember: when going uphill, use one easier gear than you think you need, until you reach the top. THEN, use one bigger gear than you think your legs are ready for as you pick up speed near the crest…continue to do this until you reach a good tuck speed.
I guarantee you using this technique will yield a faster result than you have yet had in practice…unless you already use this technique!
You don’t mention how long the uphill sections are so it’s hard to determine if carrying more speed should pop you over each bump/hill.
Sad thing about climbing, if you don’t practice climbing, it’s real hard to master. It won’t help you this close to the event to begin hill training now however you may consider tying hill workouts into you normal routine. Consider hills as the interval part of your bike ride. Enter the climb at LT HR or Power and drive over the top. Find another and repeat as often as you have legs for it. Stop when you can no longer power over.
Long distance aerobic riding typically doesn’t build the type of LT power needed when the road turns up. You’ll need to add on-the-bike efforts at the higher power output to sustain huge efforts at race pace.
he knows what he’s talking about. There’s no point killing yourself on the downhill, you only gain a km or two in speed in return for a high heart-rate inducing spin. Very few races are won on the downhill, always on the uphill. Tuck on the downhill to recover and then follow Yaq’s instructions for the climb. Grabbing a progressively harder gear as you crest the hill, though perhaps counterintuitive and sometimes painful, is the way to crush the will of those you pass. The key to being able to do that is too not go too hard at the bottom of the hill. It takes a bit of practice to get used to climbing like this, but believe me it works.
Glad you are not complaining that the course is not dead flat like others down here in SoCal.
I love the bike course and the challenging run. You definitely want to save something on the bike. It is one of the more challenging sprint triathlons around here and you got to love the location!
You should not go all out on the bike unless you are a very good runner… Last year I rode my Slam-Bike on this course. It is fairly criterium-like and I prefer a quick-handling bike for the 4 U-turns.
Riding strategy: As mentioned by others:
Take it easy on the downhills. I would not exactly coast but pedal at about 75% LT. As I crest the “bump” I try to ride it “descending” (meaning with increasing effort), aiming to be at LT or slightly above on top and then maintain this for the flats. You will loose more time on those false flats if you go over your LT on the climb (as you have already experienced).
Thanks to you and the rest of the crowd who contributed the advice. I tried to use it Sunday, but my bike leg was actually slower than last year. I guess I’ve got some more practicing to do, and I just wasn’t feeling sharp overall. Oh well – it was a nice day to race, and the race was well-organized as usual.
And congrats on 12th. Your bike split was only three minutes faster than mine…yikes. I saw Slowman half-way through his run, and he was tooling along pretty well (21:26).
It was a tough day for me. The Swim seemed long by about 2 min. and the bike didn’t go as expected either… maybe I should listen and go steep and aero
If you are the Tom C in my AG, you seem to be no slouch either. I was barely holding you off!
I like it because it is a sprint where you can’t fake it. If you haven’t put in the miles, especially on the bike, it will show. Beach run seemed tougher compared to last year too (beach erosion)
It is one of the tougher sprint-Tris out there and the fact that Slowman comes down each year shows that it is a good race. Got a chance to talk to him briefly on Sat. Unfortunately didn’t meet you. Should have set up something…, maybe next year.
That is on the downhill portion. Spin with gentle pressure on the pedals. I would be willing to amend this to tuck and spin, but at the very least, spin. This will flush out the lactic acid that accumulates in your legs while climbing the hill. This will help you be “fresher” as you climb the next hill.
I cannot count all the people I pass going downhill because they are coasting trying to recover from the last climb while I am spinning with gentle pressure on the pedals. On successive hills they are lost in the dust because their legs get heavier and heavier because of all the lactic acid they let build up in their legs with all these hard efforts and no effort to flush out the lactic acid.
Unless there is a long slow rise leading up to the next hill that sucks away your momentum, try to carry your speed from the last descent to the next uphill on rolling sections.
Otherwise, follow yaqui’s recommendations to the letter.
Ben wrote: I agree with yaquicarbo with one exception.
That is on the downhill portion. Spin with gentle pressure on the pedals. I would be willing to amend this to tuck and spin, but at the very least, spin. This will flush out the lactic acid that accumulates in your legs while climbing the hill. This will help you be “fresher” as you climb the next hill.
