I bought a QR Illicito off a Pro who was given the new PR6, had the bike built up and needed it promptly for a 70,3 so I decided to pay for a fitting from the LBS who built the bike up for me. They are an “S” dealer and use the BG Fit system. Tonight I made the first of a few small adjustments; I raised the seat height 1/2" to get a bottom of pedal stroke behind the knee angle of 152 deg, It was 142 upon measurment. I dont use a PM but I did the TT tonight went at what I would call an 8/10 and was 0.02 from a PR where I went blass out of the same bike. I feel better on the bike and notcied less movement on the saddle during the TT too.
Has anyone else found them to be conservative and sort of un-aero?
Next move is losing the 10mm FSA cone spacer/dust cap with a 1mm cap
140-150^ is the typical range, so they fit you at the low end of “normal” and you adjusted a bit out of the normal range…and if that works for you excellent.
BG fit is based heavily on Puitt’s fit theories. From reading his book and reading his comments on fits for the Trek/Leopard guys; the focus seems to be on comfort, efficiency, and injury prevention. Speed/aero seem to be secondary considerations.
There is an acceptable range and is very dependent on interpretations of the fitter. If I fit someone with poor hamstring hip flexibility or they are a newer rider or strongly prefer a heel down pedaling style I will set saddle height on the low side. Don’t know if you fit into any if those categories but those would reasons.
I bought a QR Illicito off a Pro who was given the new PR6, had the bike built up and needed it promptly for a 70,3 so I decided to pay for a fitting from the LBS who built the bike up for me. They are an “S” dealer and use the BG Fit system. Tonight I made the first of a few small adjustments; I raised the seat height 1/2" to get a bottom of pedal stroke behind the knee angle of 152 deg, It was 142 upon measurment. I dont use a PM but I did the TT tonight went at what I would call an 8/10 and was 0.02 from a PR where I went blass out of the same bike. I feel better on the bike and notcied less movement on the saddle during the TT too.
Has anyone else found them to be conservative and sort of un-aero?
Next move is losing the 10mm FSA cone spacer/dust cap with a 1mm cap
Yes. All fitters are conservative. Think about it: 90% of athletes they see are either back of packers or age groupers. Their goal is to finish the Ironman to brag to their friends for the rest of their lives. These are people who buy bikes and get fits. How many people are elite and racing for the top 5%? Well, by definition, the top 5%. These people don’t call you up and ask for a fit in the middle of the season. Also, most elites I know have at least a “good” position already. So, no, an experienced fitter’s goal is not to get you as aero as possible on your bike. His goal is to get you into a comfortable position that you can ride.
I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve heard of someone finishing their fit, thanking the fitter, and then going home and undoing every change he made. Part of being a fitter is convincing someone to give your fit a chance, even after they hop on and think to themselves, “Hmmm… This is different. Bad different?” Of course it’s different - it’s a new fit!
In your specific case: Many people (myself included) prefer the lower end of the range (140ish). It also takes less core strength and forward rotation (ie, sitting on your taint) to ride a higher saddle.
I bought a QR Illicito off a Pro who was given the new PR6, had the bike built up and needed it promptly for a 70,3 so I decided to pay for a fitting from the LBS who built the bike up for me. They are an “S” dealer and use the BG Fit system. Tonight I made the first of a few small adjustments; I raised the seat height 1/2" to get a bottom of pedal stroke behind the knee angle of 152 deg, It was 142 upon measurment. I dont use a PM but I did the TT tonight went at what I would call an 8/10 and was 0.02 from a PR where I went blass out of the same bike. I feel better on the bike and notcied less movement on the saddle during the TT too.
Has anyone else found them to be conservative and sort of un-aero?
Next move is losing the 10mm FSA cone spacer/dust cap with a 1mm cap
Sometimes a conservative fit can be faster…
A just good a new fit:
Saddle down 2cm
110mm stem instead of 90mm
additional 10mm spacer under the stem
Now I do not have any problems with patella inflammation anymore and I get my head in front of my shoulders for improved aerodynamics.
To me, though the saddle to handlebar drop decreased, I got faster.
I might just call that less aggressive rather than conservative. I didn’t measure my saddle bar drop but if you look in the " official QR illicito" thread of which I’m the Only poster you can see how minimal it is. I will post some pics this weekend with angles.
What does being a back of the pack or front of the pack has to do with whether a fit should be conservative or not? The goal of any fitting is to put you in the most optimal/comfortable position, regardless of your speed. There has been plenty of pics on ST over the years showing pros in positions that one may consider quite upright or conservative. Being super aggressive or super aero doesn’t do you any good if you can’t generate power. Sometimes being more conservative is the better way to go, but this has nothing to do with whether you area a 24 mph or 14 mph biker at an IM.
I bought a QR Illicito off a Pro who was given the new PR6, had the bike built up and needed it promptly for a 70,3 so I decided to pay for a fitting from the LBS who built the bike up for me. They are an “S” dealer and use the BG Fit system. Tonight I made the first of a few small adjustments; I raised the seat height 1/2" to get a bottom of pedal stroke behind the knee angle of 152 deg, It was 142 upon measurment. I dont use a PM but I did the TT tonight went at what I would call an 8/10 and was 0.02 from a PR where I went blass out of the same bike. I feel better on the bike and notcied less movement on the saddle during the TT too.
Has anyone else found them to be conservative and sort of un-aero?
Next move is losing the 10mm FSA cone spacer/dust cap with a 1mm cap
Yes. All fitters are conservative. Think about it: 90% of athletes they see are either back of packers or age groupers. Their goal is to finish the Ironman to brag to their friends for the rest of their lives. These are people who buy bikes and get fits. How many people are elite and racing for the top 5%? Well, by definition, the top 5%. These people don’t call you up and ask for a fit in the middle of the season. Also, most elites I know have at least a “good” position already. So, no, an experienced fitter’s goal is not to get you as aero as possible on your bike. His goal is to get you into a comfortable position that you can ride.
I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve heard of someone finishing their fit, thanking the fitter, and then going home and undoing every change he made. Part of being a fitter is convincing someone to give your fit a chance, even after they hop on and think to themselves, “Hmmm… This is different. Bad different?” Of course it’s different - it’s a new fit!
In your specific case: Many people (myself included) prefer the lower end of the range (140ish). It also takes less core strength and forward rotation (ie, sitting on your taint) to ride a higher saddle.
I bought a QR Illicito off a Pro who was given the new PR6, had the bike built up and needed it promptly for a 70,3 so I decided to pay for a fitting from the LBS who built the bike up for me. They are an “S” dealer and use the BG Fit system. Tonight I made the first of a few small adjustments; I raised the seat height 1/2" to get a bottom of pedal stroke behind the knee angle of 152 deg, It was 142 upon measurment. I dont use a PM but I did the TT tonight went at what I would call an 8/10 and was 0.02 from a PR where I went blass out of the same bike. I feel better on the bike and notcied less movement on the saddle during the TT too.
Has anyone else found them to be conservative and sort of un-aero?
Next move is losing the 10mm FSA cone spacer/dust cap with a 1mm cap
Sometimes a conservative fit can be faster…
A just good a new fit:
Saddle down 2cm
110mm stem instead of 90mm
additional 10mm spacer under the stem
Now I do not have any problems with patella inflammation anymore and I get my head in front of my shoulders for improved aerodynamics.
To me, though the saddle to handlebar drop decreased, I got faster.
So conservative might be faster than aggressive
I am proof of that. I had the typical triathlete fit. (high seat, low bars. Think Peter Reid on a magazine cover) I figured that would be what was best for me. I got a BG fit and one of the biggest changes was to raise the aero bars. I naturally questioned the fitter about being less aero since my bars were higher. He explained that my bars were so low that I was rolling my shoulders doing two things: causing me discomfort while riding and increasing my overall profile from the front. After the bars were raised my shoulders were in more of a natural position, my back was straighter, and my overall profile was decreased. Not to mention that I was considerably more comfy.
I am sold on BG fit. I think that we as triathaletes fall into the mentality of wanting that cover of the magazine bike with the super aggressive setup. It looks great, don’t get me wrong, but most of us cannot ride it sadly
For me I was a little apprehensive at first after going to a more ‘comfortable’ position during the Body Geometry Fit.
In the past I had my front end/base bars slammed as low as they could go with a position change being made early this year of getting even lower with minimal aero bar spacers. This fit was not a BG fit and left me out of action with a back issue and in terrible pain for 3/4 weeks after just a 3 hour ride in this new super ‘slammed/aero’ position.
After having the Body Geometry Fit once I was recovered, the biggest change was my entire front end and aero bars being lifted up almost to max height. Just one ride in I felt more comfortable and able to push a higher wattage than I had ever done in the past with the ‘slammed/aero’ setup. I wasn’t sold during the fit on this approach but after just this one ride I could really notice the different. To me I look at it in the fact that I prefer to be uninjured, comfortable and able to push more wattage then being aero and always on that limit of injury, being uncomfortable and pushing a lower wattage.
I am a pro triathlete so I was looking for any gain that I could get from my bike and position. The Body Geometry Fit to me was one of the best things I’ve done this season to get faster and more comfortable. Yes, I am a Specialized sponsored triathlete but all things aside I am a big believer that a proper bike fit is the best investment you can make. For me the Body Geometry Fit worked wonders and what you call ‘conservative’ has made me faster and more comfortable on my bike.
That’s why I added this in. Any one who knows me personally will say that I am straight up with what I say. I only choose to use what I totally believe in and was riding Specialized years before any sponsorship agreement. My first TT bike was a Specialized Transition which I saved ever dollar I could in order to afford to ride what i believed was the best out there. I also bought an S-Works Tarmac in addition to this as well. I feel very privileged to now have the opportunity now to be an ambassador for a brand I well and truly believe in and have been riding on many years.
Back on topic… As I said the BG Fit really works for me. Before this I had another fit done which really screwed me up. Most important take home point that I have for anyone is that we are first and for most triathletes. NOT cyclists. Cyclists can run a super aggressive position as they don’t have to run off the bike. For triathletes being comfortable should be your priority as it will allow you to run faster off the bike come race day. The time saved being ‘aero’ will be lost come the run leg from what i have seen. As I said above, for me if I am comfortable and higher in the front end I can actually push much more power and ride faster than when i had an aggressive position especially in my front end setup.
Bike fits really comes down to your preference and how your body can cope with different positions. If you can run an aggressive setup I say go for it but in my own experiences what i originally thought was much faster (slammed front end) turned out to be slower than a more comfortable position which allowed me to push a higher wattage and run faster off the bike.
Everyone is different but these are just my own experiences which I hope are of benefit to the slowtwitch community.
So i read your replies to this thread Sam, and i pictured something quite high with a back pointing up. I looked up your blog and you look pretty much like every other pro in the top 15 that ST posts pics of each year. I think if that pic is accurate, then yes, you were put down way too low in the first place. Just about any good fitter would have known this and fixed it for you.
And for everyone that had a mental image like i did, here is his position: