Is it better to break up 30 miles per week at 5 miles per day over six days, or do short, medium and long runs?
I grew up an athlete and I know how to run, but after a few knee surgeries and a decade of couch, I got very heavy. While losing all the weight, a friend talked me into doing tri’s and I did my first last summer.
My swimming and cycling are decent. I can keep a 1:40 pace for 2k, and I can ride a 20mph avg over 40k on my road bike. The run averages in the mid-10’s anywhere past 10k. I think that increasing my running base over the end of season and off season will help me get faster. How should I break up those miles? Does it matter?
Search BarryP Plan. Frequency can keep your runs shorter to help in your recovery and injury prevention.
5 runs/week (30 mi): 6, 4, 6, 4, 10
6 runs/week (30 mi): 6, 3, 6, 3, 9, 3
I finally did it and stuck with it over this past winter and shaved over 1:00/mile off my easy pace. I worked up slowly from 15 mile weeks to 30-40 mile weeks and had ~4 months of continuous 30+ mpw. All done at a super easy comfortable pace.
I was blown away at how quickly the gains I had when I stuck with it and only incrementally increased mileage.
I’m back to 20-25 (mostly bc it’s so damn hot and running is miserable) but the gains have stuck all the while I’ve also been dialing up bike a lot more during this time.
I’ll definitely do another winter run focus this year.
Seriously. Start by incorporating some walking. Either straight up walks if necessary or runs with regular walk breaks. Not every time, but as much as it takes to get your 30 miles.
The first, the most important adaptation of any running program is your body’s ability to actually handle your own weight. Your joints and tendons need to be handle you continually moving your body weight before they can handle you continually running with your body weight. That means you need time on your feet in any way you can. Before you worry about the quality.
So start by doing whatever it takes to get your 30 miles. If that takes some walking, do some walking. This will allow you to start adapting while dropping some weight.
I’d have to think about that. It’s probably pretty useful advice to incorporate more walking.
I’m currently doing 18-24 miles per week depending on training cycle. I figured rolling the swimming back to two days and adjusting cycling time would help make up for the time difference. Wasn’t really thinking about the adaptation. I’m hopelessly overconfident in my ability…probably why miles 8-13 of my 70.3 last month hurt so bad!
I got my running up to a better place than it had ever been since skool days (when I still hadn’t fully reached my ‘adult’ weight) following the basic BarryP gospel… not in any real detailed or specific program, but just the core principle of increasing total volume by simply running more often even if it meant mostly smaller and slower chunks. Even just throwing in an extra couple miles at the end of a ride when I’m already out of the house and sweaty instead of having to mobilize another separate run ~ not so much about ‘brick’ training, but rather minimizing the logistical load of additional individual training sessions.
It may seem like a lot of the extra runs are too short or slow to do you any good, but if you can get up to 6+ runs per week the total mileage should add up. People often harrumph about ‘junk’ miles in cycling, but I don’t think that applies in running since the impact injury factor is very different.
I’m a heavier guy/slower runner and have had good results this race season from a similar higher volume run block this winter. Highly recommended.
My experience: Keeping most of your runs short is really good, especially at first as you are ramping up from your current run volume to your target 30 miles/week. I did about a month at 25-30 miles/week before working up to 35 miles/week. Building up tendon and joint durability is riskier for those of us hauling around more mass.
Early in my block I usually did 5 days per week, sometimes doing 6x/week or doing shorter runs 2x/day (morning and evening) to keep individual run lengths more manageable. Once I was deeper into my training block and my target 30k race got closer I ramped up my long run distances. On weeks when I had my biggest long runs, I generally went down to 3 or 4 days/week as my long run ate up so much of my weekly volume. I kept my shortest runs at about 30 minutes each for practical reasons rather than trying to hold an arbitrary number of runs.
All the advice on there is spot on. Right now emphasize more runs during the week (6 days) where you are potentially running fewer miles in each and then build up the mileage over those runs.
I’ve read through the barryp stuff. I think he may address this, but I may have missed it in all the detail. Do I run all of my runs around the same pacing? Say, in sweet spot zone ±3? Or do I need to do tempo and interval days? Is it just about mileage in the offseason?
My last A race is on 8/20, so I’m planning to do the transition to all of this following that.
Basically LSD for now, adding in some tempo and intervals later on. Build a base first.
I followed a modified Jack Daniels approach for pacing and interval work. If you aren’t sure about an appropriate pace you can check the VDOT calculator here based on a recent race and use the “Easy” range under the “Training” tab. https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/
I found getting used to a slower easy run pace was really awkward at first but I have set a ton of PRs this season. Stick with it!
Is it better to break up 30 miles per week at 5 miles per day over six days, or do short, medium and long runs?
I grew up an athlete and I know how to run, but after a few knee surgeries and a decade of couch, I got very heavy. While losing all the weight, a friend talked me into doing tri’s and I did my first last summer.
My swimming and cycling are decent. I can keep a 1:40 pace for 2k, and I can ride a 20mph avg over 40k on my road bike. The run averages in the mid-10’s anywhere past 10k. I think that increasing my running base over the end of season and off season will help me get faster. How should I break up those miles? Does it matter?
No real advice… you just scared me. I saw the thread and thought I was posting in my sleep or something and didn’t remember! Sounds exactly like what I would have posted.
Before adding a bunch of tempo or intervals I would start with strides. One of the best things you can do for your running to improve form, mechanics and efficiency. Usually they are done at the end of a run but sometimes it’s mentally easier to throw them in mid run. Something like 6-10 20 sec bursts with 1-1:30 of easy running in-between.
Didn’t read the replies but here is what I’d do with an athlete
Start with frequent runs and short durations. Probably/maybe even run/walk. I’d also prescribe a fair bit of walking as additional workouts. ie 30 min run/walk in the AM 20-40 min walk in the PM with your dog, or a neighbors dog or your spouse etc.
Have a dog? time for it to get into (better) shape.
IOW drop weight before trying to run long durations especially with a surgically repaired knee.
Then after a bit of you can run longer. I’d probably not worry about racing this season or maybe doing some Aquabikes if long course and sticking to sprint tri’s maybe OLy’s if you ran/walked.
I’ve done 2 sprints, a half, and have an Oly next week and i’ve felt pretty good. While my weight was up to 280+ 2 years ago, i’m currently 6’2" 230 and built a bit like a linebacker. I have a lot of gym strength and that’s whats holding further weight loss (well, that and ice cream). I hit the 1,000 pound club a month before I started into triathlon last year.
All that to say, my current long runs are in the 8-12 mile range and the knee is really good. There’s certainly other strain on things like my achillies that I feel and keep an eye on, but all of the lower body weight lifting i’ve done in the last couple of years has really helped to protect my legs.
I’ve read through the barryp stuff. I think he may address this, but I may have missed it in all the detail. Do I run all of my runs around the same pacing? Say, in sweet spot zone ±3? Or do I need to do tempo and interval days? Is it just about mileage in the offseason?
My last A race is on 8/20, so I’m planning to do the transition to all of this following that.
I run along the lines of the Jack Daniel’s program and have mostly “easy” runs with some tempo and track workouts. When I’m in a run block, I’m doing a track interval session, long easy run, foundation run or two close to tempo and a tempo run or two.
I really like the program and have to give credit to my coach that sends me a weekly dose of workouts. Before my coach I always ran more miles and mostly at tempo pace. Results weren’t as great as I am experiencing now with varying paces, with some at “easy” paces.
As a guy that lost a lot of weight as I was discovering triathlon and having bad/surgically repaired knees… I spent time on elliptical machines while I dropped weight. I don’t know how it helps with actual running, but as I got lighter I spent less and less time on an elliptical.