Berlin Marathon - possible protests and disruptions

Triathlon Forum
21

I

People are swayed by informative campaigns, education, and by witnessing the effects from hurricanes, wild fires, heat waves, etc., not by a bunch of crazed looking nuts harassing people, shouting, gluing themselves to the floor, or throwing paint on artwork. That’s all counterproductive in my opinion.

Umm …

people are (were) not swayed by education. We tried: we brought our own bags* … but we are living in a world that is irreparably worse because of years of willful ignorance.

Witnessing the effects of climate change as a means to sway people is like … well … I don’t have an analogy. Maybe dehydrating one’s self to bring awareness to the issues of not drinking? Counting on minimally observable damages to inform us of worse damages to come? When it’s already too late?

It will get so, so much worse. extreme measures and activism are in store because other measures have been demonstrably inadequate, and there is nothing more threatening to our species or the planet than continued inaction.

off the soapbox now.

  • I stole that line from Marc Maron.
22

Anyone else running the Berlin Marathon this weekend?

The climate protesters who have been gluing themselves to the streets all year have announced that they are not yet sure if they’ll disrupt the Marathon too. Earlier this week they used fire extinguishers to vandalize Brandenburger Tor with red paint. If they find a way to disrupt the marathon, the publicity for them would be huge…

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/sport/vor-dem-berliner-marathon-wochenende-die-angst-vor-der-letzten-generation-10487854.html

Article in German

I’ll be there. Corral C wave 1. Hopefully they don’t disrupt my 3:15 attempt but not the end of the world if they do. Im here for the WMM star/medal first and foremost.

23

I

People are swayed by informative campaigns, education, and by witnessing the effects from hurricanes, wild fires, heat waves, etc., not by a bunch of crazed looking nuts harassing people, shouting, gluing themselves to the floor, or throwing paint on artwork. That’s all counterproductive in my opinion.

Umm …

people are (were) not swayed by education. We tried: we brought our own bags* … but we are living in a world that is irreparably worse because of years of willful ignorance.

Witnessing the effects of climate change as a means to sway people is like … well … I don’t have an analogy. Maybe dehydrating one’s self to bring awareness to the issues of not drinking? Counting on minimally observable damages to inform us of worse damages to come? When it’s already too late?

It will get so, so much worse. extreme measures and activism are in store because other measures have been demonstrably inadequate, and there is nothing more threatening to our species or the planet than continued inaction.

off the soapbox now.

  • I stole that line from Marc Maron.

Your weren’t on a soap box. Instead it’s cloud cuckoo land.

The protests are virtue signalling, nothing more.

If they were serious, they would protest in areas having a serious effect. Example, industrial china.

Instead, they protest in nice areas. Like central London. Berlin. Anywhere where there is no real risk.

It’s laughable.

Real protests with real meaning protest in the right place.

On top of that, there are plenty of young people who instead of gluing themselves to roads do something constructive - like building technology to help, learning the science to study the effects, etc

There is a lot people can do instead of disrupting the lives of others.

“Soap Box” … the arrogance.

24

Your weren’t on a soap box. Instead it’s cloud cuckoo land.

The protests are virtue signalling, nothing more.

If they were serious, they would protest in areas having a serious effect. Example, industrial china.

Instead, they protest in nice areas. Like central London. Berlin. Anywhere where there is no real risk.

.
Well, because you called me arrogant …

Just so I follow: are the climate protests and climate activism that actions are virtue signalling? Or is it protest / activism regarding any issue? If I understand correctly, it’s the means of addressing a social issue that’s the problem here, and if I’m further understanding, it’s because it’s selfish instead of altruistic. Correct? Have you told protesters and activists who achieved social change in the past about that distinction? They would probably be embarrassed that their motives have been exposed.

(Also, I’m guessing the protests are occurring where protesters live. Or could readily deploy. Also guessing: I don’t know if it’s as much ‘risk-adverse’ as it is ‘readily deployable and achieves an impact.’. I have protested locally about issues that occur in places that are not the protest site, but I hadn’t really calculated that I should go only to the eye of the storm, or just not protest at all.)

25

I think these kind of stunts have the opposite effect of what the protesters would actually like to achieve. It just makes them look like a bunch of wacko extremists and doesn’t change anyone’s opinion about climate change.

People are swayed by informative campaigns, education, and by witnessing the effects from hurricanes, wild fires, heat waves, etc., not by a bunch of crazed looking nuts harassing people, shouting, gluing themselves to the floor, or throwing paint on artwork. That’s all counterproductive in my opinion.

i disagree. the reality is that people who don’t give a fuck, won’t give a fuck. then there are people like me. who care about the environment. i recycle. i try to buy soaps etc that don’t affect the environment as much. i try to eat/buy local foods. i purposely found a job that allowed me to be remote because it reduced my carbon footprint. i “care” about the environment, but there are a whole TON of things that i do that are bad for the environment.

for example. i purchase from amazon, that can’t be good, i use natural gas at home to cook, etc. what these protests do is garner attention. like they say, bad publicity is better than no publicity. inevitably, articles will be written, there will be forum posts, and someone, someway, somehow will post a link and i’ll learn something and i’ll say damn. i had no idea, i need to make these changes in my life. there is a carryover effect, people like me will make lifestyle changes, and others will see and may follow.

being vegetarian (i’m not one) is one way to really really reduce your carbon footprint. my co-worker is one. he never told me, i just asked him after we had lunch together a few times and i saw that he didn’t have any animal protein. i asked him why, he said because he wanted to reduce his carbon footprint. i already don’t eat a lot of animal protein, but it did make me pause and think… you know. of all the things i can do, this is probably the best way to reduce my carbon footprint.

the people that these protesters are going to get to, are the people in the middle… i’m not angry at them… the reality is that shit works… remember black lives matter too, protests? i remember soooo many of my white friends were anti black lives matters too, protests when it started. not even 2-3 years after they started, i have conservative white friends start saying shit like black lives matters…

26

We are going on a tangent here, but after Black Lives Matter, I am more scared going cycling because the colour of my skin, not because I am a cyclist. Before that I was blissfully ignorant of what biases some people have and I may be in more danger in public for no other reason that what shade the skin is.

But back to the topic at hand, maybe a better way to do this is the organizers give them the option to glue themselves to the path to the podium. Seriously, this would be waaaay better. Let the marathon happen and when the winners are invited to the podium, allow the climate activists in and let them glue themselves to the path to the podium and have all the cameras hone in on them, let them make the message and you get a a win win for all parties. I would imagine the bulk of the Berlin Marathon organizers are in the camp of taking care of the environment, and by definition, a World Marathon Major is a massive carbon footprint day given the ten’s of thousands flying in to do the race, all the carbon emitting transport etc etc.

At least that is what I would do if I was the race director and I would come out looking like the winner too and bring the climate activists into my camp.

27

being vegetarian (i’m not one) is one way to really really reduce your carbon footprint. my co-worker is one. he never told me, i just asked him after we had lunch together a few times and i saw that he didn’t have any animal protein. i asked him why, he said because he wanted to reduce his carbon footprint. i already don’t eat a lot of animal protein, but it did make me pause and think… you know. of all the things i can do, this is probably the best way to reduce my carbon footprint.

do you eat bananas, cashews? cause those are shipped half way around the world on container ships doing .0001mpg. lets extinct all livestock to reduce co2 gas from them. win eh?

28

This is going to be like when climate change protesters managed to get the 2012 NYC marathon cancelled altogether.

Oh wait… that was climate change itself, not the protesters.

Anyway, I get being upset if you’ve planning for your first BQ, sub-3, PR, etc. And it’s probably not the tactic I’d choose, but a) unless you’re actually one of the people involved in the protests, you don’t get to choose protesters’ tactics; and b) “protest all you want, as long as I can ignore it” isn’t an answer here.

There’s a trail I take near where I live (Hong Kong). Not a lot of people use it, it goes through some abandoned farm land. There are feral cows in the area - I see them on the trails fairly often. A few months ago I saw one section where the cows had really beaten up a part of the trail. I remember thinking to myself, “people would know better, than to keep using that one section that way, and risk making the whole trail unusable.” Then I thought, you know, people know better than to keep heating up the atmosphere, yet here we are…

I was on that trail yesterday, first time in a few weeks. We’ve had a typhoon and a ton of flooding recently. Worse flooding than HK is used to, or ready to handle. There are landslides all over the hills. This trail was still passable, but it’s tight at a few spots. I don’t know if it will last.

So, if I’m going to get up on a soapbox, it’s going to be about global warming itself, not about people protesting it.

29

Just got back to the hotel very happy with my performance today!

The protestors threw what seemed to be entire cans of paint in the first km on the road. Had to side step a few to avoid running through globs of paint.

Otherwise no disruptions that I saw

Race went down very smoothly. Fast course if a bit boring scenery.

30

Just got back to the hotel very happy with my performance today!

The protestors threw what seemed to be entire cans of paint in the first km on the road. Had to side step a few to avoid running through globs of paint.

Otherwise no disruptions that I saw

Race went down very smoothly. Fast course if a bit boring scenery.
Congratulations!
Super great to hear when someone is happy with their performance.

Re: the protesters. I’ll bet that they used paint that contains no chemicals derived from petroleum, and that when rained on won’t harm any downstream wildlife. So, they got that goin’ for 'em.

31

Congrats to the runners who made it and had a great race!

Here is a link to some footage

Does anybody know, if these people ever had ANY success achieving ANYTHING with these protests?

32

Congrats to the runners who made it and had a great race!

Here is a link to some footage

Does anybody know, if these people ever had ANY success achieving ANYTHING with these protests?

The success is reminding us all of our overall carbon footprint. All these things add up. Its not like they will get an direct policy or regulatory changes, but all the awareness generation chips away gradually.

It must be working because we are talking more about climate impacts than the 2:03 from Kipchoge and new 2:12 Women’s world record from Tigist Assefa!!!

33

I know it’s not perfect but I get it should be mentioned the race gives registrants the option to offset their carbon impact when checking out. I think it was 5-10 euros.

Not sure what it accounts for but it’s not nothing. I get that carbon offsets are not all they’re cracked up to be and not looking to debate. Again just putting info out there into the thread.

Oh and they also tested out some bio degradable cups at two aid stations today. They’re getting there and have a whole “follow the green line” initiative to be carbon neutral by some point or similar goal.

34

I was pretty surprised that the organizers let the pros run through the paint. I was in Wave E and then police officers had barricaded it so we had to squeeze in a bit, not a big deal.

35

Well, I get the marketing value these people BELIEVE this has. But to me it is almost quite opposite (not that I am anti-climate change)

It is a bit like that Rouvy commercial that kept coming on (every 5 mins) during the Augusta 70.3 yday. So god damn annoying that it makes me not ever considering buying their product!

Congrats to the runners who made it and had a great race!

Here is a link to some footage

Does anybody know, if these people ever had ANY success achieving ANYTHING with these protests?

The success is reminding us all of our overall carbon footprint. All these things add up. Its not like they will get an direct policy or regulatory changes, but all the awareness generation chips away gradually.

It must be working because we are talking more about climate impacts than the 2:03 from Kipchoge and new 2:12 Women’s world record from Tigist Assefa!!!

36

This is going to be like when climate change protesters managed to get the 2012 NYC marathon cancelled altogether.

Oh wait… that was climate change itself, not the protesters.

Anyway, I get being upset if you’ve planning for your first BQ, sub-3, PR, etc. And it’s probably not the tactic I’d choose, but a) unless you’re actually one of the people involved in the protests, you don’t get to choose protesters’ tactics; and b) “protest all you want, as long as I can ignore it” isn’t an answer here.

There’s a trail I take near where I live (Hong Kong). Not a lot of people use it, it goes through some abandoned farm land. There are feral cows in the area - I see them on the trails fairly often. A few months ago I saw one section where the cows had really beaten up a part of the trail. I remember thinking to myself, “people would know better, than to keep using that one section that way, and risk making the whole trail unusable.” Then I thought, you know, people know better than to keep heating up the atmosphere, yet here we are…

I was on that trail yesterday, first time in a few weeks. We’ve had a typhoon and a ton of flooding recently. Worse flooding than HK is used to, or ready to handle. There are landslides all over the hills. This trail was still passable, but it’s tight at a few spots. I don’t know if it will last.

So, if I’m going to get up on a soapbox, it’s going to be about global warming itself, not about people protesting it.

Here to remind you that yes the climate is changing, yes human activity has an effect on the environment. But please remember climate is a 30 year average. So for you to remark on climate change consisting of a few data points requires 60-90 years which even then is a blip. Attributing a canceled event to climate change is entirely unscientific according to the definitions of the thing, but that seems to be par for the course in this day and age of raising awareness or influencing behvaior by abusing science.

The weather varitions from year to year have trends which can last for 100 years or 500 years and suddenly reverse for 100 years.

Some small portion of that is our impact and even a smaller portion of that small portion is all that’s up for grabs with drastic changes in behavior. And if we removed all our impact magically the trend for the future does seem to be warming regardless with intermittent 100year periods of cooling, etc.

37

Congrats to the runners who made it and had a great race!

Here is a link to some footage

Does anybody know, if these people ever had ANY success achieving ANYTHING with these protests?

The success is reminding us all of our overall carbon footprint.

So if they hadn’t been directed around it, people who ran through the paint would leave actual footprints?

That’s kinda clever, in a misguided sort of way

38

Just saw this video, and remember this thread. The proper sport to protest:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/609750391070705

39

I think these kind of stunts have the opposite effect of what the protesters would actually like to achieve. It just makes them look like a bunch of wacko extremists and doesn’t change anyone’s opinion about climate change.

People are swayed by informative campaigns, education, and by witnessing the effects from hurricanes, wild fires, heat waves, etc., not by a bunch of crazed looking nuts harassing people, shouting, gluing themselves to the floor, or throwing paint on artwork. That’s all counterproductive in my opinion.

I agree with this. And I am someone who is very aware and concerned about climate change. But this is not how to change hearts and minds.

I do sympathize with the younger generation who are protesting. I can’t imagine what the future holds for them and their children/grandchildren. But disrupting marathons and bike races and other events is not going to bring much change. It only angers people. It’s not an effective or efficient way to bring about change.

They likely have a future with a life expectancy greater than anyone born before at least 1980. And more creature comforts if they are in G20 countries. Even with climate change.