Howdy folks,
I am currently coaching a junior cyclist (and HS swim team member- hopefully tri is in his future.) I coach this kid Gratis (actually, at a loss right now, as I use Coaching peaks, and pick up his tab.)
He’s broke, and I need to find a downloadable HRM for him, preferably a Polar. Cheap, or better yet, one that someone is willing to donate to a good cause.
Help?
.
Hi Fredly
Firstly a great effort for the work you do with up and coming athletes. But personally I think the kid just might have it a bit sweet - hell not many teenage athletes would have the luxury of a downloadable HRM.
I would say use his poverty to feed the hunger for success. Not having a downloadable HRM is certainly not going to hold back his performance just like having a 105 bike isn’t going to stop him developing as a cyclist as opposed to a durace bike. I have a polar 710 that I am not using at the moment but have given it to my Dad to train with - charity begins at home and all that. I never did get around to buying the IR download accessory.
Now if the kid couldn’t afford shoes or was in need of some money to eat properly in order to fuel his recovery so he could train harder…then I am there for him. But a downloadable HRM… tell him if he wins his first NA Ironman event I will have one in the mail to him straight away;-)
“When I was young we had to run 10 miles each way to school every day, barefoot, uphill both ways, snow on the ground 11 months of the year…yada yada yada” (my Dad - now he is 60 he has his HRM)
yes, i agree with this. what I’ve learned is that the more you do for someone the less they do for themselves. if this kid really wanted it he could pick up a seasonal j-o-b, and work for it. handing it to him isn’t going to help him develop character, increase his appreciation for things, and the like.
it sounds harsh, but fredly is already doing ALOT. perhaps it’s the adult who wants the kid to have this, and not really the kid…see, people do what their priorities are, and if it was a priority for the kid then he would make a way to have it.
sounds harsh, but the best lessons for a youngster include working for what you got. doing so inspires appreciation for things, and knowing what it costs (time, effort, money, etc) to “get there”.
also, I don’t really believe that kids need this kind of equipment. hell, I trained and won without any of these modern technical devices…can’t a kid be a kid and enjoy the sport in its fundamental state? (without the influece of “you need this or that otherwise you won’t be as good as you can be”)that’s a hypothetical there.
kittycat
I’m fairly new to the sport but did begin as a teenager (i’m 22 now and started at 19), i began running at a young age and was heart rate dependent back then. Something that has tripped me up since then (because i no longer use a hrm) is that i have trouble telling how i “feel” during efforts. I think this has a lot to do with using an hrm from the beginning for running. I think that getting a downloadable hrm would be a good idea but allow him some time to feel out the training first. How old is he? how long has he been doing tris?
This is a very good cause and good luck!
You see, folks, the thing is I’m trying to COACH this kid - and I need to be able to see what he is doing when he trains. To do this, I need him to be able to download his HR info - at bare minimum. I really try not to take on clients who are not wattage metering, but that’s simply not possible for this kid. Too much Money.
The “earning it will help him grow” is, IMHOP, pure BS. Saying he doesn’t need it is pure ignorance (and only demonstrates that you have never worked with a coach.) The DA/105 analogy is completely ridiculous.
"tell him if he wins his first NA Ironman event I will have one in the mail to him straight away;-) "
This kid has paid $80 in race fees in the last 3 weeks - out of his own pocket, as a sophmore in HS. He is currently saving for the HRM - I am simply trying to make his life easier.
I could go into the life story here, but I won’t. Suffice to say, there is no alternative funding source, no trust fund, no wealthy parents - he buys it if he needs it. And he needs this a heaping sh**load more than Tibbs needed a G-damn P3.
I really have no problem if nobody can ante up to help this kid - I just had the wild idea that maybe, just maybe, I might catch someone in a charitable mood. That said, please, fer chrissakes, keep your Horatio Alger morality BS to yourself - I don’t need to hear it, and it doesn’t apply.
.
I will help out fredly. I don’t want to spring for all of it, but let me know what I can do.
Your advice on this site has been more than worth it.
I just got my trashed Trek Y from back for Levy. It seems to work great. Trek couldn’t fix it, but he had no problem. Now, if I could only find the front derailleur . . .
Thanks Art,
Glad to hear you could salvage that bike - irreplaceable.
Thank you for your kind offer, and generosity.
My thinking, when I posted this initially, was that someone on here has an old downloadable HRM sitting in a drawer, they aren’t using it, and they could donate it.
I would like to avoid taking $ from anyone - I have seen too many people run into problems doing that, even on this site…
Thanks again,
.
I’ll give him one of mine but it is not a Polar and it doesn’t have any download feature… let me know if you want it.
Ron
Hmm suspected all along that it was you that was pushing for the downloadable HRM.
“Saying he doesn’t need it is pure ignorance (and only demonstrates that you have never worked with a coach.) The DA/105 analogy is completely ridiculous.”
I know nothing of your coaching etc so wont get into a slanging match lets just say we agree to differ on the essential importance of an HRM to a sucessful training program. There are plenty of very successfull athletes out there who have never used either watts or HR and there are plenty who have.
Your coaching programs are based around these tools so obviously you view it as essential? I don’t. Others will, others wont.
I am sorry. the last thing I wanted to do is piss off a guy going out of his way to help others.
I don’t think suspected is the right word here. I assumed from the first post that it was fredly trying to help the kid and make coaching easier by using available tools. No harm there.
If that is the way he works as a coach, and it is a common way, what is the harm?
Fredly is a consistently excellent source of information on this site, so, hopefully, someone can help out.
I agree with Adam about the kid not needing a HRM. To think that some coaches rely on them to this extent now is a little disturbing. What happened to actually knowing your athletes and letting them learn what their bodies are doing. Imagine a HS student ‘requiring’ a downloadable HRM just to be coached…
… maybe this is a troll ??
Diamond Adam, I agree with you. I am honestly surprised by threads like this. Why not teach the kid about checking his pulse with his finger and combining this with RPE?
Personally, I turn the switch off on purchasing all these toys until there is strong evidence that the toys are essential. Perhaps this is going on a tangent, but nevertheless, you will rarely (if ever) see the best runners in the world (The Kenyans) training and racing with HRM’s. Train the kid to become familiar with the signs of overtraining. Train him to become in tune with RPE. That’s my two cents. I think when people are truly in tune with their body they can pretty much tell you what their HR is. Once in a blue moon I strap on the HR monitor for fun. Every five minutes I guess what my heart rate is and then look at the watch. I am always within 3 bpm of my guess.
I apologize now if I am preaching. I just get dumbfounded by the requests on this forum sometimes. A downloadable HRM at that. Yikes!
Fredly, I believe that you are a very kind and giving person - so please don’t take this as an attack. I just have a hard time understanding why more than the basics have now been deemed essential?
Fredly, maybe you can take this post as a chance to learn. You have found and basically defined a large hole in your coaching practices/knowledge and now you can focus on learning other techniques. I hope you will take this opportunity to grow into a better resource for your athletes. Once you have learned other techniques, you can pass these on to your athletes, it’ll be a win win situation.
Let us know how the kid is doing in a few years !!
Trev
Fredly,
I’ve coached many kids that age and just wanted to tell you that you need to be careful on what you do for them.
It is really easy for them to become spoiled, even those kids that appear to be more humble. Giving him an expensive piece of gear, however useful it is, sends out the wrong message to the kid, the message being “In order to be good you need this”. T
he message that you should be stressing is about achieving goals through hard work.
frankly I find your post way out of line. you are asking for donations for a kid (after all of this bullshit happened with Tibbs, I would think no one would ask for donations again, but whatever) and someone responds with a differeing point of view and you react like this.
Do you realize you are asking for something that cost a nice chunk of change, and then have the gull to smack someone who has responded to you (sure with a differing position) in a decent way?
also, it’s clear that you’re the one who wants him to have it. so, if you want it so bad then buy it yourself. And, frankly, this sport is expensive. He should pay his own entry fees–and he has, so that’s great. It’s nothing to feel sorry for him about. In fact, it’s exellent, and when he earns enough for his own HRM he will love it and be so proud of that…why take that away from him? Put your own desires on hold and go at the speed this kid can go–don’t be the one pushing gear on him. He’ll have plenty of outside gear pushing without you doint it too. Plus, he’s earning his way and that in itself is the real take away. Trust me, you being there, supporting, nurturing, loving, and all of that is really what matters here…
Also, I disagree when you say that you can’t coach him properly without a HRM. That makes you look bad. I’m coached and have been coached my whole life. I’ve got a HRM sitting right here, and it stays there because I’ve been taught other ways to learn about my body and performance…it’s my choice not to use it, but none of my coaches (from middle school up) have ever relied on something like this to bring out the best in me. It’s not needed. Winning is about heart and soul, not always about numbers and science.
Anyway, I’m not hatin on you, but just found your abruptness to be out of line, especially when you’re making a play for charity. Perhaps you’re under stress or something, and I understand that, but just wanted to speak out.
I was thinking of this thread for a little while when I logged off and I feel compelled to type up some more comments. I think this thread speaks volumes for a problem we are suffering in this sport. The problem is that many of us have lost our vision on what is necessary and what is desired. Simply put, we have become people of excess.
Let’s face it, you can easily turn a motivated young person from a back of the packer to a top ag’er with the basics. By basics I mean: pair of average running shoes regular swim suit with basic goggles a $500 bike off of ebay (Trek Hilo’s are on Ebay for less than $600!!) ,$30 helmet and $120 cycling shoes (again much cheaper on Ebay). Note - not even a wetsuit is a necessity for most races.
To train with the basics means you first learn about your body and how your body reacts to various stimuli. I believe wattage meters, HRM’s, speed/distance watches are great TOYS for many AG’ers and undoubtedly great TOOLS for the elite looking to get that extra inch but I firmly believe the a newcomer should first learn the basics - otherwise these tools only become a distraction. For example, I still think it is somewhat funny that a person needs to look at a HRM to determine how hard they are working - think about that for a moment - Ridiculous!!! What ever happened to “I am breathing very deep and fast and my legs are feeling heavy…therefore, perhaps I should slow down a tad”.
Just remember pre-1990. There were many people kick’n ass without these frills.
Here are my thoughts:
I’ll kick Fredly’s a** if I ever meet him.
You are asking for a freebie. First off, buy the damn thing yourself. We don’t need your sob story around here about being a Good Samaritan. Many of us posters work hard for our money; started off with the bare essentials and now find the value in the extra gadgets. There is no need for this kid to have a HRM and you know it. I bet you’ll be using it most of the time anyway, a nice little perk for yourself, eh?
When people take the time to make thoughtful suggestions in response, I don’t think the best way to react is in the curt manner that you did. That’s just my opinion I guess…but it helps if everyone here agrees with it.
Bottom line is you’re a loser. Post your crap somewhere else.
I just thought that I would chime in here
My husband is a pretty fast triathlete - Sub 9 at IMFL, top 10 at IMLP and winner of Vineman last year. He does this while working 60+/- hrs per week.
Up until recently (including before his Sub 9), he used NO gadgets. No HRM, No BIKE COMPUTER, and not even a stopwatch. He did usually wear is timex IM watch, though. For long rides, he would not even know his exact distance. He would just look at the clock when he left in the morning, and again when he returned home. Out on the bike, he would look at his watch and mile markers to check his pace. Unbelievably simple. And he is unbelievably fast.
Of course now he has a powertap - which he uses only occasionally, because it doesn’t work when wet. But he usually still keeps it super simple.
My point is that you can have unbelievable performances with NO gadgets. That being said, tools such as a downloadable HRM can be very effective for both the coach and the athlete. If you can get one to help this young athlete, then why not? I don’t think that if it were donated that he would become spoiled or any less grateful for all of your help! I wish you the best of luck!
PS. I have a HORRIBLE habit of becoming a slave to my HRM. To prevent this, I force myself to train for a few weeks/month without, just to help myself be more aware of the body.
I think what is bugging me the most of this Fredly dude is that he has the trust of a young kid in his hands. By the way he reponded and then dissapeared clearly shows he is not a coach that is willing to explore other options and learn.
I am bugged by this post because of the kid involved, not because of Fredly’s response.
Trev
aw steady guys…
I am sure Fredly is a great bloke and has a pretty solid track record on this forum with a lot of people vouching for the very helpful free advice that he has given. Sure some of us may disagree with the resoning behind an HRM etc but some of the last few posts are a bit personal.
I was half expecting (and maybe deserved) to cop similar treatment for making a suggestion about the merits of a HRM to a guy that at the end of the day was just doing what he thought was right.
We are the peaceful tribe after all.