Baseball people - What were the top players in MLB making in the 50's?

The Coffee Shop
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I heard on ESPN yesterday someone lamenting that Hall of Famer X only make $Y back in the 50’s, which is below the Major League minimum in 2007.

I found a CPI calculator online (not that hard to do of course) and wanted to calculate the 50’s number into 2007 dollars to test out their gripe. I hear the “Modern professional athlete salaries are outrageous” claim all the time, but never have seen comparative numbers.

I believe Ichiro’s new contract brought the issue up, which is silly since he’ll be making less than A-Rod does now, and since A-Rod will make even more next year.

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http://www.roadsidephotos.com/baseball/bb02-5.htm

An interesting little blurb, primarily about Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio…

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I seem to remember listening to an interview with Denny McLean back a few years ago (in between prison stints) and if I remember correctly he was saying that back in the 60’s they all used to have jobs during the off-season because they were only paid while they werre playing or something like that. It is kind of foggy.

Bernie

4

Very interesting, thanks!

Odd to note that their calculation of Williams’ 1959 salary of $125,000 in 2002 was worth $772,766.32 (their number being a bit off, probably rounding), and is worth $893,251.72 in 2007.

A good note in that article is the introduction of TV contracts, which greatly increased the level of cash available to owners and players.

5

Yeah, they comment that through Williams’ career, his (2002 numbers) adjusted-for-inflation earnings would have been $10.8 million…not shabby by most standards, but a mere pittance in comparison to today’s numbers.

Certainly the infusion of television revenue is the absolute number 1 reason payrolls have been allowed to get so huge…followed closely by owner stupidity…

6

I love the owners.

They are almost all idiots. I can understand given the competitive nature, the haves and havenots etc why it works out the way it does. But they all speak from both sides of their mouthes. I guess if one does some game theory or just a simple prisoner’s dilemma it becomes clear that any owner will bemoan high salaries and then pay someone a ridiculous amount of cash if they think they can win.

In addition to which, people rarely (if ever), consider the off the field cash flows a player is responsible for. Sure, Ichiro isn’t A-Rod, but you don’t think a Pacific Northwest MLB team doesn’t want to keep the most popular Japanese player on their team??? He’s worth millions a year for that alone.

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For the really true talents of the game…I don’t begrudge them their money, not one bit. They were able to get it, they do something that very few people in the world can do—as bizarre as it is that someone who plays a game for a living can make that kind of money, but it is what it is. No, it’s the journeyman that ends up with some crazy multi-year, multi-million dollar salary that really takes the cake.

And I know the SF Giants are loving their investment in Barry Zito now…as an avid A’s fan, I’m not feeling too sorry for anyone involved in that mess. Good for Zito…but 6 wins at the All Star Break–yikes!

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For the really true talents of the game…I don’t begrudge them their money, not one bit. They were able to get it, they do something that very few people in the world can do—as bizarre as it is that someone who plays a game for a living can make that kind of money, but it is what it is. No, it’s the journeyman that ends up with some crazy multi-year, multi-million dollar salary that really takes the cake.

This is a perfect example of the thinking that owners prey on whenever there is a labor dispute.

“Someone who plays a game for a living.” Let’s see here. When you’re 18, you get drafted and told who you belong to, so already unlike your peers, you cannot choose your employer. You are “playing a game” for three hours each night, but you are also there 3-4 hours early working on hitting to the opposite field, learning a new pitch, etc. Hop on the bus for the six hour ride to the next town on this road trip. If all goes well, you move up the levels, and are with the big club in 3-4 years. Of course, if you haven’t yet, then you can be grabbed by another team, again not of your choice. Suppose you do make the big leagues. Again, you’re “playing a game” every night. You have 40,000 people yelling in your ear, but hey, hit that curveball. After the 9 innings, you go to dinner or out, and you may very well have your social life laid bare in the newspapers. Also, because of your ability to do things with a bat or a ball, apparently you are now responsible for the youth of the country, because they “look up to you.” Yes, you get to go to the next city on a plane now, but you are still taking batting practice before, you have your every move scrutinized by the reporters, who pepper you with questions after the game, and if you don’t answer their questions gleefully, they brandish you a jerk. Only after 6 years of this level of baseball can you choose your employer, but the average career is 4 years, so what are the chances of you lasting that long? Don’t forget to keep in shape in the offseason as well, because that hotshot rookie is hot on your tail, and the owner would just love to put him in at a quarter of your salary next season.

Does that still sound like “playing a game for a living?” Sorry, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves. What you buy a ticket to see may be a game, but being a professional athlete is work. They are well compensated, and most everyone would want to have that job over their own, but it is work, and referring to them as “people who play a game for a living” frankly demeans what they do. It is like saying Tom Hanks get $20 million for 2 hours of work. The movie we see may be 2 hours long, but Hanks works a lot harder for that money than we ever know. I know you said you don’t begrudge the money, so we’re good there, but I always get my back up when I hear “playing a game”. Our Little League teams played a game.

The journeyman getting the money may sound crazy, but I always say, how did the owner make the money to buy the team in the first place? These are not stupid people. They do not sign players to contracts they can’t pay, nor to ones that do not represent a value to the team. Be it, like someone said Ichiro’s value as a marketer, or a “loyalty”(for lack of a better word) to a popular player, no one forced the owner to sign the contract. Plus, no one ever bought a ticket to see an owner, at least that I have ever come across. It may seem like an inordinate amount, but the journeyman is the guy you are watching. Why shouldn’t he get the money?

9

Having worked for a minor league team, I can only second how much it isn’t JUST “playing a game”. Sure, you do get to play a game, but the actual game ends up being a fraction of your day/week/month/season.

One season is absolutely brutal and the amount of damage the body is forced to absorb is crazy.

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Guys, note that I did say “play a game” but did not bring up anything to do with time involved, etc.

Baseball, while a business and an industry that employs many people, is in fact a game. They’re not educators, they’re not curing cancer, etc.

That being said, don’t take my statements as a callous disregard for professional athletics in general and baseball specifically—not even close. I work for ex-NFL players and I have a tremendous appreciation for what being a pro athlete entails. Baseball’s season stretches from February to nearly November now, perhaps the longest of any of the “major” sports, and I’ve read many stories of the trials and tribulations of the minor leaguer struggling to chase his dream and what that means.

I never said it was easy, and I did mention that, paraphrasing now, these guys do what very few people in the world can do at this level. They should be compensated well…but that doesn’t mean we can’t wonder why major league teams pony up ginormous sums of money for the middle- and lower-tier players…that doesn’t make good economic sense no matter what the business. But it is their money, no one is holding a gun to their heads and for the most part—nah, always—I say “good for them” referring to the player that got that contract. Perhaps discussing whether or not they “deserve” it is another discussion topic, and maybe it isn’t…what went into that contract, we only see a fraction of.

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I didn’t think you meant it that way, I hope BF75 didn’t either. No intention on my part to pile on.

I say look at the Prisoner’s Dilemma as to why low to mid-tier players get overpaid. Owners think they can obtain an advantage by getting their preferred (or a perceived steal) in a particular player, and will sometimes overpay a little to get that person.

And while the market isn’t totally free, inflation is inevitable, but the fluidity of labor (also limited, but improved) contributes to wage increases. And owners can’t collude to artificially lower the wages.

And think of it from the NYY, NYM, BOS, LAD etc sized markets. If they over pay for people it makes it tougher for MIN, BAL, etc. to compete.

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“And think of it from the NYY, NYM, BOS, LAD etc sized markets. If they over pay for people it makes it tougher for MIN, BAL, etc. to compete.”

Again, as an Oakland Athletic fan, I am all to painfully aware of this…!!

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They’re not educators, and they are not curing cancer, that is correct. Two factors are at work here, one of which you have alluded to, which is scarcity. The Ken Griffeys, Barry Bonds, etc., are very rare, but you have to remember as well that the journeyman you refer to is maybe #400-600 of the best 7-800 players in the world. Compared the top players they may not be much, but their skill level overall is very, very rare. While educators play an important role, there are many, many, many of them. To be completely callous(I don’t really feel this way, just to illustrate the point), there really isn’t anyone curing cancer at the moment. There are a lot of scientists who are trying, but given that you can find many of them, in comparison to athletes at least, they aren’t paid a lot either. The one who does come up witht he cure is going to make money hand over fist.

The other factor at work is what society values with their money. Rightly or wrongly, people buy tickets, watch games on TV, and buy apparel in such large numbers that the money that pours into these sports is by appearances large(keep in mind that MLB or the NFL 's revenues are not much bigger than Proctor & Gamble’s marketing budget), and that by the limitations of the respective sport models, there are very few spots for people to perform. Thus you have the high salaries.

As far as “ponying up”, I have to disagree with you here. The worst thing the mediots do when they talk money is talk about “average” salary, when what they are referring to is mean average. You’ll hear $2.5 million or so when it is bandied about. This number is a bit dated, and I would need to look up more current info, but I asked once, around 2002 or so, what the median salary was. For those unaware, median refers to the point at which half make more and half make less. That number was $550,000. While still a nice wage, that’s a lot different than thinking every player makes $2.5 million, no? Put it into real terms. Alex Rodriguez makes around $25 million. Put him on the field with 8 other players who make the minimum of $200,000. This team has a mean average salary of $2.95 million. A much different pitcture.

Are there Gil Meche stories? Sure. If you’re KC< maybe you’re trying to give an impression to your customers that you are making some type of effort. But I think the stories you refer to happen far less often than you think. It’s simply the economics have moved that a certain level of player makes a certain amount, which happens to be more than you think they should make.

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“And think of it from the NYY, NYM, BOS, LAD etc sized markets. If they over pay for people it makes it tougher for MIN, BAL, etc. to compete.”

Again, as an Oakland Athletic fan, I am all to painfully aware of this…!!

This is another area where the mediots have failed miserably. There is a reason a baseball season is 162 games, besides the revenue reason. It’s that you can’t tell which team is better over 20, or 50 games, and sometimes not even 100 games. What teams have been as successful as Oakland over the past 7 years? The Yankees, and maybe the Red Sox. Oakland got creaitve, and found a way to win 100 games a season on a small budget. This gets derided by the “baseball elite”, because they need to proagate the myth that money is wrecking it all. They focus on “getting it done in the postseason”, because we all know that two dozen games, against the best competition, spread out over several seasons is the best way to evaluate a franchise. Billy Beane has basiclly thumbed his nose at the media, which I admire, and so they have tried to propogate the idea that Oakland has been a failure.

I’m a Tigers fan. A market that when it’s convenient they try to pass off as a small market, but it’s not. Over a 13 year stretch the best the team did was finish 4 games within .500. Even with last season, I would trade the whole package of Oakland this decade with what the Tigers had.

But they sucked for the same reason the Royals suck, the Twins sucked for so long, etc. Because they chose to. They let the old stadium and team go to pot so they could help the cause for a new park. They went cheap and kept a GM who had no clue for nearly 7 years, and they got what they deserved. When they finally spent money on someone who knew how to build a team, and then spent some money on some players(not crazy money, but they upped the payroll some), they turned into a good team. Minnesota was the first AL team to draw 3 million people. How can you cry poor when you can draw that many people? But you have to put a good team on the field. Carl Pohlad is one of the 5 richest men in America. The Twins were bad because he chose to have them be bad. Once he spent a little money, and got some people who knew what they were doing, lo and behold they start winning division titles. When Ewing Kauffmann owned the Royals, they were top of the AL WEst consistenly. They also spent money. Now they don’t, and so they are nowhere near the top of their division.

Sure the Yankees have more money to spend. You would also pay more to buy that team. But as this year shows, the money doesn’t always help. Those teams that won all those WS? Any franchise that would have brought up those players would have had tremendous success. Most of those players were from the farm system. Nobody from the outside was anyone that huge money “that only the Yankees could pay” brought in. Billy Beane has shown that good sound management can overcome money. The playoffs are a crapshoot, and while they are nice to watch, they don’t tell you that much about teams other than how they did that week against that opponent. Sound management works wonders.

15

The Washington Nationals are/will be a good test of your theory.

We have money in Lerner, and our baseball President is Stan Kasten of Braves fame. The weak link is Bowden.

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So there’s money with Lerner. Frankly I would not really consider Kasten an important piece. His contribution to the Braves was hiring John Shuerholz, who ironically enough was GM of the Royals back when they were good. Bowden…I’m torn on him. I have to go back and see how much he had to do with the Reds in 99 being good(went to a one game playoff). There was another case of an owner putting the shackles on the GM(and everyone else in the case of Marge Schott…lol…). Yeah he ran his mouth, but what does that have to do with his ability to put a good team on the field?

The one thing I will say is that the Nationals get some time because MLB just raped and pillaged that franchise because they didn’t want to have to carry any more cost than they absolutely have to. That whole episode should have sent Selig, Loria and the Boston owner(for the life of me I can’t remember his name) to jail.

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I’m too lazy to do the quick search, but the trade that sent Colon to Montreal (he now is 5’11" and weighs 245lbs by the way) sent at least 3 current starting major leaguers to the Indians. Travis Haffner, one other guy, and Phillips now with the Reds. And the list of wretched trades/moves by the Expos before they came to DC is a mile long. Longer than all the other tortured franchises in my opinion.

(Full disclosure: Not only am I a Nats fan, but a family friend played for the Expos, so I have followed them since the early 90’s as a true and legit fan)

I think Kasten will actually be valuable with his experience, and will temper Bowden. Bowden, I dunno. He’s such a pain because he makes some great moves (Nick Johnson when he’s healthy, Dmitri Young, and even Belliard) and some bad one’s (anyone we’ve ever gotten from the Reds, including Willy Mo Pena who inevitably will come here as Bowden has a h*rd on for him).

Random plug, if you are interested in humorous Nats coverage a buddy of mine has a blog that gets mentioned by WaPo/WaTimes twice a weak http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/ It’s a humorous/sarcastic look at the team.

We have a lot of pieces in place, BUT, we are oft injured and it takes at least 5 years to rebuild a minor league system. And the Expos system was THE best in the 90’s and 00’s before MLB f’d it up.

As a non-Nats fan I can agree on them getting “some time”. But being here, that ain’t happening. We have a very harsh view of the team, born from our Redskins experience. We want results, and we want them now. If the Nats don’t put a quality team on the field next year, this franchise is going to suffer majorly. They saved millions this year, they damn well better spend it next (this being a paraphrase of the majority of fans, not necessarily my opinion).

And given that 4/5’s of our opening day rotation is injured, I’d say our win/loss record is actually pretty decent.

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Curtis Pride. Yeah he was with the Tigers for a short bit as well. Helluva story. Seemed like a good guy.

The difference between the Expo trades and the other tortured franchises is that those other franchises just had bad people running their operations. The Expos were under directives of MLB to get cheap. Absolute fiasco.

I suppose they are playing the “wait untilt the new park” card as well? People have got to realize that a league mandated purge takes years to recover from. Look how long it took the Tigers to recover from horrible drafting.

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The Lerner’s aren’t exactly using the “new park” excuse/reason.

What they said was that there is “the plan” (much derided and lampooned by Nats fans at times). And “the plan” dictates you don’t go spend millions of dollars on free agents this year when there is no way we could ever compete. I agree with this, I don’t think spending money to come in 3rd in the NL East and 15 games back is worth it for this year.

So the promise is that maybe next year we’ll selectively sign some guys, hope they are 2008’s version of Dmitri and Belliard.

All outside reviews are that the Nats have had two years of GREAT drafts, expecially this year. We have one guy we got in maybe the 5th round who is 1st round quality, but may go to Stanford. If we sign him, then this would be an amazingly stupendously great draft.

We have a core group of guys progressing through the system right now, might start paying returns mid-year next season, and should make some appearances as our bad year closes out.

Our current issue is we have a number of pitchers injured (4/5’s our starting rotation), Cristian Guzman was going gangbusters then got hurt again, and others on the roster are injury prone (Nick Johnson, and a few OF’ers).

And no matter what, I will always hold a grudge towards the Nats and MLB in how they treated Frank Robinson. He was continually given a junk roster and made it work. He should have been given way more respect on his way out the door, but alas, was not.

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anyone we’ve ever gotten from the Reds, including Willy Mo Pena who inevitably will come here as Bowden has a h*rd on for him

This can’t happen fast enough. He has been a bust since being traded here for Bronson Arroyo (the Boston media still beats up on Theo Epstein for that one, even if Arroyo is struggling this year). Other than a few tape measure home runs, he has been a liability where he strikes out far too often since he can’t hit a breaking ball at all. Meanwhile, the Sox have a hot prospect in triple A Pawtucket in Jacoby Ellsbury who plays like a young Johnny Damon except that he has a good throwing arm as well, but is probably stuck down there until September since they may have a hard time unloading Pena at the trade deadline (unless what you said about Bowden comes true).